Did you get a chance to listen to the ALPA conference call a week ago from yesterday? They said a majority (80%) of the credit that ADTG was applying that benefited our pairings was going to reserve pilots that weren't breaking guarantee, those were numbers the company would not give us, and the union had to figure out in its own...so only 20% of our scheduled pairings are benefiting the lineholders or reserve pilots actually breaking guarantee, that's not a lot, and if you want to talk about open time, open time only counts towards 4% of flying per ALPA. Those are the facts! Again your only talking about a very small piece of the pie...

The company will not get rid of 30 hour layovers, they may reduce them and choose to do other things like DH us (not beneficial because it would count towards pay, credit and duty in some circumstances) and use us in other ways, but they will not get rid of them, we are restricted a lot when it comes to FDP with some of the places we fly only offering 1 or 2 flights a day (ie Montana). We had 30 hour layovers before ADTG came into play...what makes you think if we go back to the way it was we will shed them? The company has already showed there hand post 117 and prior to ADTG...

The 20% number is only the number of credit obtained from the adtg that was above guarantee for the bid packet and reserve pilots going over 75. It does not reflect any open time trips that lineholders have taken throughout the month, which changes that 20% number significantly. It will also be low in the bid packet because it serves the company no purpose to build trips where we credit less than the adtg.

If you understand how statistics work, that 20% number is meaningless unless put in context. One month it could be 0% and the next 50%.

You also have no idea of the gain lineholders made throughout the month. To act like there are no gains is deceitful. We have plenty of pilots that routinely gain greatly through the application of the adtg with partial transactions and open time trips created throughout the month.

We are not restricted to most of the places we fly. There are plenty of DH options from most of the cities we do 30 hour layovers in. With the option to get 4:00 of pay/credit for calendar days with no assigned duty, it becomes increasingly cheaper for the company to build trips with a DH to keep us from moving. Your seem to like to analyze things with blinders on.

I have provided facts, directly from the union, you care to discount them. You have tried in every post to discount any factual information I have given...I'm done argueing with you on this matter, we'll know soon what the union decides...

Can't fault you there. To borrow from Cool Hand Luke, "......Some men you just can't reach"

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I post this in jest...in all seriousness, 404yxl is right about it being a min DUTY (is that big/bold/obvious enough yxl?) day. But the fact of the matter is, as several others have posted, the chances of getting those 4 hour 2-days and 8 hour 3-days are extremely remote. Yes, they happen...rarely. Even the extremely unproductive trips are quite remote and often are awarded to reserves who are kept below 75 hrs no matter how hard they try to sweet talk the schedulers. We can't afford to have lineholders be unproductive given future staffing needs. Yet with the schedule DL gives us, we often fly the last flights out of hubs (which, for the most part, arrive before midnight) and the first flight into hubs, which necessitates scheduling 30+ hr layovers and CDOs. Unfortunately, we couldn't get the company to agree to min calendar day language. Most likely because the company didn't want to fork over 8 hrs of pay + credit per CDO. How awesome would that be though, 10 CDOs for an 80 hr line? Sign me up

Generally, I would image the min DUTY (again, hope I got that big/bold enough for ya yxl) day pay + credit of 4 hrs would be generally more beneficial. Last year I had a line where I was awarded 4 x 4 day trips, all worth 20 hours, all with one 30+ hour layover. They would have been worth 24 hours each with the 4 hr pay protection for calendar days away from base. That's just my experience though, I know I don't speak for everyone here.

The union sent out another link to the survey today, everyone should take the time to fill it out.

Can't wait until this is over and I don't have to read about it on every web board.

A thousand likes your way sir

The union only provided facts about reserves and the amount that went over guarantee. You must have missed the entire rest of the explanation that they could not receive numbers on the exact numbers lineholders gained throughout the month, which is occurring.

I honestly couldn't care less which one we go with. I'll be senior and benefit from either selection. I'm just sick of you continually twisting of the facts. Pilots here are due the correct info, not the inaccuracies of a few pilots hell bent against the imaginary massive pain the adtg inflicted on them.

HAL,

Nice tantrum. Took you long enough to finally read simple contract language.

Another method that works wonders:

This message is hidden because ****** is on your ignore list.

I love lamp.