Global Express - First Officer Pay
12-11-2009, 02:53 AM
#41
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by mmaviator
Tangent question,
What would be the total cost(plane, crew costs, fuel, mx, insurance, etc) for a aircraft flying a part 91 operation(400 flight hours a year) to the middle east area. A ballpark figure for a low end aircraft(two ish fuel stops) to a high end aircraft(nonstop if possible).
What would be the total cost(plane, crew costs, fuel, mx, insurance, etc) for a aircraft flying a part 91 operation(400 flight hours a year) to the middle east area. A ballpark figure for a low end aircraft(two ish fuel stops) to a high end aircraft(nonstop if possible).
Where are you coming from in the US, and where are you going in the ME? Let's use Dubai as an example.
Assuming you start at CYQX, an midsize with roughly 3000nm range (Sovereign, Citation X, Hawker 900XP, G150, Falcon 50/50EX, CL30) should be able to do CYQX-EINN-LTBA-OMDB fairly easily each way as the longest segment is the crossing which is less than 1800nm. That said, many of those would be a small cabin for such a long haul.
Something with roughly 4000nm range (Falcon 900B, G-III, 2000EX/LX, CL604) could do eastbound with a single stop from many places in the midwest US, but would need 2 stops coming back depending on winds.
A G-IV/450 or Falcon 900EX would be able to do midwest US to Dubai and back with a single stop in Shannon or western Europe.
An ultra-long range aircraft like a GLEX, G550, or 7X could do nonstop from Gander or maybe the East Coast; coming back, nonstop may not be possible depending on location & winds.
I'd imagine a RON or crew swap would be in order somewhere in Europe on anything smaller than the nonstop-capable ultra-long range airframes.
Aircraft acquisition costs? From sub-$5M for an older G-III up through the $50M range for a new G-550 or GLEX. Many G-IVs, CL604s and 900Bs seem to be in the $10-14M ask range these days, though.
Crew costs? At least 4 captains and maybe a flight attendant or two.
Insurance? I have no idea.
Fuel? Consumption varies from an average of 180gph on the G150 to over 500gph on the G-V.
Of course, this is to say nothing for flight planning services, manual creation, training, hangar, subscriptions, etc etc etc.
12-11-2009, 08:12 AM
#42
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 53
Interesting to see my 2.5 yr old thread is still alive! I don't get on APC much anymore but thought I'd check in. For the record, at the time of my initial post I was employed with my 2nd regional carrier and had a couple years corporate experience prior to going 121. Apparently my screen name has influence much of the conversation here.
Anyhow, I accepted the job and I have never looked back. My salary was on the lower end of the scale but the year end bonus brought my annual earnings to just above average. Yes, the bonus was significant.
We have replaced the GLEX with a larger aircraft. There are so many variables involved with every operation (91, 135, and 121) that salaries should not be based just on aircraft type but overall duties and responsibilities. Other things to consider are cost of living, previous experience (not just flying in particular), demanding schedule, etc.
Very interesting information and tangents being discussed here and I look forward to future replies!
Anyhow, I accepted the job and I have never looked back. My salary was on the lower end of the scale but the year end bonus brought my annual earnings to just above average. Yes, the bonus was significant.
We have replaced the GLEX with a larger aircraft. There are so many variables involved with every operation (91, 135, and 121) that salaries should not be based just on aircraft type but overall duties and responsibilities. Other things to consider are cost of living, previous experience (not just flying in particular), demanding schedule, etc.
Very interesting information and tangents being discussed here and I look forward to future replies!
12-11-2009, 08:29 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
That's a HIGHLY variable question. The short answer - pretty freaking expensive.
Where are you coming from in the US, and where are you going in the ME? Let's use Dubai as an example.
Assuming you start at CYQX, an midsize with roughly 3000nm range (Sovereign, Citation X, Hawker 900XP, G150, Falcon 50/50EX, CL30) should be able to do CYQX-EINN-LTBA-OMDB fairly easily each way as the longest segment is the crossing which is less than 1800nm. That said, many of those would be a small cabin for such a long haul.
Something with roughly 4000nm range (Falcon 900B, G-III, 2000EX/LX, CL604) could do eastbound with a single stop from many places in the midwest US, but would need 2 stops coming back depending on winds.
A G-IV/450 or Falcon 900EX would be able to do midwest US to Dubai and back with a single stop in Shannon or western Europe.
An ultra-long range aircraft like a GLEX, G550, or 7X could do nonstop from Gander or maybe the East Coast; coming back, nonstop may not be possible depending on location & winds.
I'd imagine a RON or crew swap would be in order somewhere in Europe on anything smaller than the nonstop-capable ultra-long range airframes.
Aircraft acquisition costs? From sub-$5M for an older G-III up through the $50M range for a new G-550 or GLEX. Many G-IVs, CL604s and 900Bs seem to be in the $10-14M ask range these days, though.
Crew costs? At least 4 captains and maybe a flight attendant or two.
Insurance? I have no idea.
Fuel? Consumption varies from an average of 180gph on the G150 to over 500gph on the G-V.
Of course, this is to say nothing for flight planning services, manual creation, training, hangar, subscriptions, etc etc etc.
Where are you coming from in the US, and where are you going in the ME? Let's use Dubai as an example.
Assuming you start at CYQX, an midsize with roughly 3000nm range (Sovereign, Citation X, Hawker 900XP, G150, Falcon 50/50EX, CL30) should be able to do CYQX-EINN-LTBA-OMDB fairly easily each way as the longest segment is the crossing which is less than 1800nm. That said, many of those would be a small cabin for such a long haul.
Something with roughly 4000nm range (Falcon 900B, G-III, 2000EX/LX, CL604) could do eastbound with a single stop from many places in the midwest US, but would need 2 stops coming back depending on winds.
A G-IV/450 or Falcon 900EX would be able to do midwest US to Dubai and back with a single stop in Shannon or western Europe.
An ultra-long range aircraft like a GLEX, G550, or 7X could do nonstop from Gander or maybe the East Coast; coming back, nonstop may not be possible depending on location & winds.
I'd imagine a RON or crew swap would be in order somewhere in Europe on anything smaller than the nonstop-capable ultra-long range airframes.
Aircraft acquisition costs? From sub-$5M for an older G-III up through the $50M range for a new G-550 or GLEX. Many G-IVs, CL604s and 900Bs seem to be in the $10-14M ask range these days, though.
Crew costs? At least 4 captains and maybe a flight attendant or two.
Insurance? I have no idea.
Fuel? Consumption varies from an average of 180gph on the G150 to over 500gph on the G-V.
Of course, this is to say nothing for flight planning services, manual creation, training, hangar, subscriptions, etc etc etc.
12-11-2009, 08:39 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Thrill Seat
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by Climbto450
You are greatly misinformed if you think 85k is entry level. I am not typed and was offered 110 just a month ago. Not having a type qualifies you as "entry level". This aircraft is the top tier of corporate jets. The few BBJ's out there are reserved for a select few pilots and they are usually retired airline guys who have great retirement packages but still want to fly. Tell yourself what ever you need to to sleep at night but by excepting that job at that pay you are doing an injustice to the corporate jet industry. Just like a scab does to the airline industry!!
Its just a matter of opinion! Based on the limited knowledge of ErikCFII it was assumed in the thread that he is a CFI. Based on those beliefs if a company was really going to put him in the right seat of the GLEX then as an entry level pay for someone with NO experience 85K is not too bad. Could it be better yes however, his benefits package could have made up the difference in first year salary.
You are assuming that 85K is his final salary, a company with a global or GV / G550 is going to give some type of raise. The raise could be yearly bonuses company cars etc. I agree one should not lower the industry by accepting low ball wages. At the time (2007) someone noted that NBAA wages for the GLEX started at 90K I'm sure within the year he was fairly compensated to industry standards. To make a long story short would I have taken the position, I don't know but what I do know is that I sleep very well at night
.
12-11-2009, 08:40 AM
#46
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by Climbto450
Unfortunatly GIII are more like 2.5 not 5.
I'd think a lower-time (relatively speaking), late-model airplane with updated paint/interior would go close to five large, but I've been wrong before.
Lord knows you'll make up for that lower acquisition cost in operating cost
12-11-2009, 08:57 AM
#47
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Not much larger than a Global Express...what are you driving these days?
12-11-2009, 09:41 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by ErikCFII
Sure there are. There are corporate versions of various Airbus and Boeing airframes. We operate a Boeing product.
12-11-2009, 09:44 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
I did say sub-$5M
I'd think a lower-time (relatively speaking), late-model airplane with updated paint/interior would go close to five large, but I've been wrong before.
Lord knows you'll make up for that lower acquisition cost in operating cost
I'd think a lower-time (relatively speaking), late-model airplane with updated paint/interior would go close to five large, but I've been wrong before.
Lord knows you'll make up for that lower acquisition cost in operating cost
12-11-2009, 02:43 PM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Yes
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Climbto450
There are some exceptions but generally they are from 2.5 to 3.5 usually they are closer to 2.5 (However I recently saw one advertised above 3.5 but it had stage 3 hush kits and it looked like a 9 paint 9 interior with a severly upgraded flight deck.) and yes your DOC is astronomical on the GIII (but think of all the Atlantic Reward dollars the flight crew will get.)
Just kidding, just kidding!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Frisky Pilot
Regional
0
06-23-2005 02:50 PM
