Global Express - First Officer Pay
04-05-2007, 06:06 AM
#11
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by FrontSeat
you are a loser !!!!
GV pilot
GV pilot
I don't think he's a loser, he simply doesn't see the "big picture."
But you bring up an excellent point. In the big scheme of things, 100K is a drop in the bucket for somebody that has the money to operate an international heavy business jet- especially when you consider the cost of fuel.
I figure that the fuel burn on the Global is similar to that of the Challenger. Let's figure that cruise burn averages 2800 lbs per hour. 2800 lbs = 417 gallons x 3.89 (current average of domestic Jet A) = $1625 hour in fuel costs alone (per hour). Figure 400 hrs of flying a year and you have a fuel budget in excess of $650,000.
Now add in MX (engine hot section inspections alone cost over a million a piece), maintenance reserve, flight planning/international handling fees, ramp/landing fees, hangar fees, customs fees, catering, and a host of other items and before you know it, you have an annual budget running well in excess of several million dollars (not to mention the acquisition costs).
04-05-2007, 08:59 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Originally Posted by FrontSeat
actually pilots who get to the level of Global or G5 it is more then likley a career job so that is it for the rest of a corporate career. Also these types of planes are usually located in large population centers,,VNY,TEB,PBI etc. you usually do not commute to these cities which means you live there.
Now can you tell me how a person who lives in lets say Los Angeles can buy the average fixer home (700K-900K) and support a wife and maybe 1 child on 85k?
Its the pilots who think small like you is the reason we are in a race to the bottom as far as salaries are concerned.
The people who pay for these planes think nothing of having to pay 18k a month for a hanger and 5 dollar fuel/gallon and you want to help them out by accepting 85k a year? you are a loser !!!!
GV pilot
Now can you tell me how a person who lives in lets say Los Angeles can buy the average fixer home (700K-900K) and support a wife and maybe 1 child on 85k?
Its the pilots who think small like you is the reason we are in a race to the bottom as far as salaries are concerned.
The people who pay for these planes think nothing of having to pay 18k a month for a hanger and 5 dollar fuel/gallon and you want to help them out by accepting 85k a year? you are a loser !!!!
GV pilot
Well now, if you want to buy a million dollar home in VNY then 85K isn't enough. If those are your goals then, yes you need to make more. I'm a loser, eh? HeHeHe. As far as I see it, you're sitting in the stands with me watching this race to the bottom in the aviation industry because what are you doing proactively to change things? Complaining? Blogging on this forum? If you are proactive in changing what you're complaining about, then maybe you'll earn my respect, but certainly not by calling anyone a "loser": An educated remark by a GV pilot, by the way.
Sure 85K is a lot for me because guess what, where I live 85K can get you a couple of houses and all the rest of the stuff that I don't really need. I don't live in VNY and I dont want to either. Look, you take your job, and I'll take mine. I see the big picture but I also know that nothing I say or do at this moment can change anything because I am in no position to do so. Until that time, 85K is going to be a lot of money for me. Maybe not you, but for me it is.
04-05-2007, 09:24 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
BB,
You're right, 85K is a lot of money - but not to fly a Global Express. (By comparison, my compensation package is close to that to fly a CITATION).
Folks who accept jobs flying equipment for "sub-standard" pay cut themselves short. More importantly, they under cut pilots who have negotiated higher tier pay for themselves. Fortunately that trend has yet to really make it over into the corporate world. Some things that have ensured this are the fact that some hiring managers (CP's) don't want pilots who low ball the figures (it doesn't look good for their own 6 figure salaries). It also helps that many flight departments keep their salary figures under lock and key.
As to what I'm going to do to make the salaries more suitable? Education is key. Teaching entry level pilots that they are worth more than what they think is the first line. Many guys flying in light aircraft come out of training thinking "Wow! The first paycheck to fly... AND IT'S A JET! I've been paying 200/hr to rent a Seminole - Just pay me anything! After all building experience/flight time is payment itself!"
I'd really love to see that attitude go away. Like I said before- Don't sell yourself short. There are MANY variables in determining what a pilot is worth, but make sure that when you're going into an interview, you have a good idea of what the pay scale ranges are for the aircraft you're interviewing in.
You're right, 85K is a lot of money - but not to fly a Global Express. (By comparison, my compensation package is close to that to fly a CITATION).
Folks who accept jobs flying equipment for "sub-standard" pay cut themselves short. More importantly, they under cut pilots who have negotiated higher tier pay for themselves. Fortunately that trend has yet to really make it over into the corporate world. Some things that have ensured this are the fact that some hiring managers (CP's) don't want pilots who low ball the figures (it doesn't look good for their own 6 figure salaries). It also helps that many flight departments keep their salary figures under lock and key.
As to what I'm going to do to make the salaries more suitable? Education is key. Teaching entry level pilots that they are worth more than what they think is the first line. Many guys flying in light aircraft come out of training thinking "Wow! The first paycheck to fly... AND IT'S A JET! I've been paying 200/hr to rent a Seminole - Just pay me anything! After all building experience/flight time is payment itself!"
I'd really love to see that attitude go away. Like I said before- Don't sell yourself short. There are MANY variables in determining what a pilot is worth, but make sure that when you're going into an interview, you have a good idea of what the pay scale ranges are for the aircraft you're interviewing in.
Education is the key, you're dead on! But what are you doing yourself, actively to up the salaries? What techniques, letters written, etc... What is it that the pilots have to do to up the salaries? If the next guy being hired at Mesa is going to be undercutting the next guy up, what is he suppose to do? Not fly at all? I am all ears here because it sounds like you're telling me not to take any job if it doesn't pay well enough. Ultimately I'm going to make my own decision here but if you have advice on how I can go and get my first job with the pay I want, I'd love to hear it!! Because last I checked, the airlines DO NOT NEGOTIATE!
04-05-2007, 10:06 AM
#14
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
BB,
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
As far as what I'm personally doing? I'd consider this thread to be part of that education. I also mentor other folks that want jobs in the industry and actively participate on several boards and committees that mentor pilots or are aviation related. How about you? All I see is excuses as to why 85K is such a great figure... why not expand your horizons and strive for greater.
As long as pilots are willing to work for subpar wages, things will never change.
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
As far as what I'm personally doing? I'd consider this thread to be part of that education. I also mentor other folks that want jobs in the industry and actively participate on several boards and committees that mentor pilots or are aviation related. How about you? All I see is excuses as to why 85K is such a great figure... why not expand your horizons and strive for greater.
As long as pilots are willing to work for subpar wages, things will never change.
04-05-2007, 10:08 AM
#15
DisplAAced
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
BB,
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
04-05-2007, 11:15 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
BB,
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
As far as what I'm personally doing? I'd consider this thread to be part of that education. I also mentor other folks that want jobs in the industry and actively participate on several boards and committees that mentor pilots or are aviation related. How about you? All I see is excuses as to why 85K is such a great figure... why not expand your horizons and strive for greater.
As long as pilots are willing to work for subpar wages, things will never change.
What AIRLINES fly the GLOBAL EXPRESS? There's a big difference between flying in a corporate/charter environment and a union airline. Airlines do negotiate- except they do it via a collective bargining agreement and union negotiators.
In the corporate world, PILOTS negotiate their salaries and benefits. And it goes a lot further than just pay and days off. Corporate benefits such as REAL 401K match (not the piddly 1/2 of 6% that airlines often pay), company cars, stock options, bonuses (as high as 10-20% base salary), paid vacation, personal use of aircraft, and use of vacation properties are all benefits that I've seen in this sector.
You can't compare flying a CRJ with flying a Global Express. In the corporate world, the Global Express or Gulfstreams are equivalent to 777's and 747s.
As far as what I'm personally doing? I'd consider this thread to be part of that education. I also mentor other folks that want jobs in the industry and actively participate on several boards and committees that mentor pilots or are aviation related. How about you? All I see is excuses as to why 85K is such a great figure... why not expand your horizons and strive for greater.
As long as pilots are willing to work for subpar wages, things will never change.
Wow. Corporate sounds enticing. I might rethink my netjets plan. LOL I'm glad to see that you are actively participating in keeping salaries higher because most people are not. With that, I owe you an apology and thank you for your hard work in keeping the pay where it should be for you corp guys. I should have made myself more clear when comparing the RJ to the Global but I'll save us all the grief. As far as what I'm doing, the forum is it. As I said earlier, I'm not in a position to be fighting for higher wages but I'm all ears for a solution. I don't really have room for expansion here because I have to take the first job I get for experience. My first will be flying DC3's for almost nothing. After a few years of gaining experience in other aircraft I just may go knocking on the corporate door. I do ask this, what is the solution to the subpar wages?
04-06-2007, 12:05 PM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 162
The solution is to stand firm on what's good for the industry and not just for yourself. This is the land of opportunity. There are others out there willing to step up to the plate and pay professionals. All it takes is some effort to network and the passion to find that "professional" job out there.
Originally Posted by blastboy
Wow. Corporate sounds enticing. I might rethink my netjets plan. LOL I'm glad to see that you are actively participating in keeping salaries higher because most people are not. With that, I owe you an apology and thank you for your hard work in keeping the pay where it should be for you corp guys. I should have made myself more clear when comparing the RJ to the Global but I'll save us all the grief. As far as what I'm doing, the forum is it. As I said earlier, I'm not in a position to be fighting for higher wages but I'm all ears for a solution. I don't really have room for expansion here because I have to take the first job I get for experience. My first will be flying DC3's for almost nothing. After a few years of gaining experience in other aircraft I just may go knocking on the corporate door. I do ask this, what is the solution to the subpar wages?
04-14-2007, 05:27 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Citation II
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by Roper92
What is the best way to get on a Global Express? Would flying a ton of hours on a CRJ700 at a regional help?
A pilot that has only flown for the regionals in his/her career is totally unproven at three things: long haul international experience, working on a more personal level with passengers, and working hands-on with every detail of a trip. Actually flying the airplane and flipping switches is such a small part of the job.
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