Airline Demands Squeezing Bizav Pilot Supply
08-05-2023, 10:47 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
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Airline Demands Squeezing Bizav Pilot Supply
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ource=hs_email
-more than 60% of Corporate Operators surveyed have experienced pilot turnover since 2015 with 43% of those going to the airlines
-schedules are a big factor in quality of life
-more than 60% of Corporate Operators surveyed have experienced pilot turnover since 2015 with 43% of those going to the airlines
-schedules are a big factor in quality of life
09-25-2023, 07:41 AM
#4
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Joined APC: May 2018
Position: Captain
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by LWW1962
I wonder if too many corporate operators are still in the mindset of you did fly last week, so you don't need "scheduled" time off. I did that $hit in the '80s, does that still go on????
It’ll only get worse, before it gets any better.
It’s typical reason is that the “people in charge” have zero aviation experience (HR folks, etc), or the flight department suffers from weak leadership, or are a little to comfortable with the status quo.
09-30-2023, 06:24 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 627
Originally Posted by Dubh
Yes, that archaic mindset is definitely alive and well.
It’ll only get worse, before it gets any better.
It’s typical reason is that the “people in charge” have zero aviation experience (HR folks, etc), or the flight department suffers from weak leadership, or are a little to comfortable with the status quo.
It’ll only get worse, before it gets any better.
It’s typical reason is that the “people in charge” have zero aviation experience (HR folks, etc), or the flight department suffers from weak leadership, or are a little to comfortable with the status quo.
Can they not comprehend what a typical schedule is for even a mid seniority major airline pilot? Like print it out and throw it right in their lap kind of thing?
Hell.....even a 7 on 7, or 14 on 14 schedule enjoyed by many in 91K.
Help me understand?
10-02-2023, 06:13 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: AA 737 FO
Posts: 65
The airlines are no longer the unsophisticated bus drivers at the other end of the airport. They are your direct competition for talent under 50…period. Fractional is exploding and they are your competition as well..
Many flight departments, like ours, live in a bubble. They’ve managed for 40 years thumbing their noses at 121 pilots. And they don’t anybody in 121 nor have any interest in how they operate so that doesn’t help. You get the cliche “the green isn’t always greener”… how would they know? Part 91 crews for corporations are a major cost center and offering 14 days off a month is what they consider part time for full time salary and that won’t work for management.
The pool of 30-40 somethings is drying up even for the airlines. Our department’s recruiter said it’s slim pickings. So how is corporate going to survive when the 55 and up retire? Many won’t and will go fractional IMHO.
Many flight departments, like ours, live in a bubble. They’ve managed for 40 years thumbing their noses at 121 pilots. And they don’t anybody in 121 nor have any interest in how they operate so that doesn’t help. You get the cliche “the green isn’t always greener”… how would they know? Part 91 crews for corporations are a major cost center and offering 14 days off a month is what they consider part time for full time salary and that won’t work for management.
The pool of 30-40 somethings is drying up even for the airlines. Our department’s recruiter said it’s slim pickings. So how is corporate going to survive when the 55 and up retire? Many won’t and will go fractional IMHO.
10-03-2023, 05:06 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Jul 2023
Posts: 22
It’s a lot of new money dingdongs. I’ve flown for a couple of owners who still think they will one day fly their planes themselves. Brokers and OEMs aren’t complaining either and possibly feeding into it; the order books are filled for the next decade.
Another massive issue right now is getting training slots in the Part 91 world. Unless you are managed, the training rackets couldn’t care less whether the plane is grounded due to crews not being able to go to recurrent. To the point of airlines squeezing corporate, FSI/CAE can barely staff their courses.
Another massive issue right now is getting training slots in the Part 91 world. Unless you are managed, the training rackets couldn’t care less whether the plane is grounded due to crews not being able to go to recurrent. To the point of airlines squeezing corporate, FSI/CAE can barely staff their courses.
10-07-2023, 05:39 AM
#8
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Joined APC: May 2018
Position: Captain
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
What are they smoking to STILL have that mindset in todays market? Serious question I'm not being funny.
Can they not comprehend what a typical schedule is for even a mid seniority major airline pilot? Like print it out and throw it right in their lap kind of thing?
Hell.....even a 7 on 7, or 14 on 14 schedule enjoyed by many in 91K.
Help me understand?
Can they not comprehend what a typical schedule is for even a mid seniority major airline pilot? Like print it out and throw it right in their lap kind of thing?
Hell.....even a 7 on 7, or 14 on 14 schedule enjoyed by many in 91K.
Help me understand?
I just interviewed yesterday for a managed G-ride, purely Part 91.
It's your standard 2 pilots, 1 airplane setup, with no schedule.
The pay is about $40K below market, with no projected salary expectations over the course of the next 2-5 years.
With their mindset, I shoulda worn my parachute pants to the interview and grown a mullet teased with Aqua Net.
I asked where they guy went that I would be replacing. "Oh, he went to American." They obviously just don't get it.
In the interim, they've been using contractors until they find a replacement.
It won't become real until the airplane is parked for an important trip.
It's painfully obvious that the "management" folks don't have the sack to tell the owners that they need to staff to at least 3, ideally 4 pilots, on an airplane that flies 300+ hours/year if they want 24/7/365 coverage.
I hope the other two people that are in the running also turn down the position, if offered, as I plan on doing.
If either of them do....well, you get what you pay for.
There are too many douchers out there who are in the part of their careers where they're only still flying for the beer money, greens fees, and funding their 3rd wife's 2nd boob-job
10-13-2023, 01:41 PM
#9
FO
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: B777
Posts: 175
Originally Posted by Dubh;[url=tel:3707552
3707552[/url]]I can't explain it, I'm just saying that the mindset still exists.
I just interviewed yesterday for a managed G-ride, purely Part 91.
It's your standard 2 pilots, 1 airplane setup, with no schedule.
The pay is about $40K below market, with no projected salary expectations over the course of the next 2-5 years.
With their mindset, I shoulda worn my parachute pants to the interview and grown a mullet teased with Aqua Net.
I asked where they guy went that I would be replacing. "Oh, he went to American." They obviously just don't get it.
In the interim, they've been using contractors until they find a replacement.
It won't become real until the airplane is parked for an important trip.
It's painfully obvious that the "management" folks don't have the sack to tell the owners that they need to staff to at least 3, ideally 4 pilots, on an airplane that flies 300+ hours/year if they want 24/7/365 coverage.
I hope the other two people that are in the running also turn down the position, if offered, as I plan on doing.
If either of them do....well, you get what you pay for.
There are too many douchers out there who are in the part of their careers where they're only still flying for the beer money, greens fees, and funding their 3rd wife's 2nd boob-job
I just interviewed yesterday for a managed G-ride, purely Part 91.
It's your standard 2 pilots, 1 airplane setup, with no schedule.
The pay is about $40K below market, with no projected salary expectations over the course of the next 2-5 years.
With their mindset, I shoulda worn my parachute pants to the interview and grown a mullet teased with Aqua Net.
I asked where they guy went that I would be replacing. "Oh, he went to American." They obviously just don't get it.
In the interim, they've been using contractors until they find a replacement.
It won't become real until the airplane is parked for an important trip.
It's painfully obvious that the "management" folks don't have the sack to tell the owners that they need to staff to at least 3, ideally 4 pilots, on an airplane that flies 300+ hours/year if they want 24/7/365 coverage.
I hope the other two people that are in the running also turn down the position, if offered, as I plan on doing.
If either of them do....well, you get what you pay for.
There are too many douchers out there who are in the part of their careers where they're only still flying for the beer money, greens fees, and funding their 3rd wife's 2nd boob-job
HD
10-22-2023, 06:01 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by WingAttackPlanR
The airlines are no longer the unsophisticated bus drivers at the other end of the airport. They are your direct competition for talent under 50…period. Fractional is exploding and they are your competition as well..
Many flight departments, like ours, live in a bubble. They’ve managed for 40 years thumbing their noses at 121 pilots. And they don’t anybody in 121 nor have any interest in how they operate so that doesn’t help. You get the cliche “the green isn’t always greener”… how would they know? Part 91 crews for corporations are a major cost center and offering 14 days off a month is what they consider part time for full time salary and that won’t work for management.
The pool of 30-40 somethings is drying up even for the airlines. Our department’s recruiter said it’s slim pickings. So how is corporate going to survive when the 55 and up retire? Many won’t and will go fractional IMHO.
Many flight departments, like ours, live in a bubble. They’ve managed for 40 years thumbing their noses at 121 pilots. And they don’t anybody in 121 nor have any interest in how they operate so that doesn’t help. You get the cliche “the green isn’t always greener”… how would they know? Part 91 crews for corporations are a major cost center and offering 14 days off a month is what they consider part time for full time salary and that won’t work for management.
The pool of 30-40 somethings is drying up even for the airlines. Our department’s recruiter said it’s slim pickings. So how is corporate going to survive when the 55 and up retire? Many won’t and will go fractional IMHO.
I never knew there were part 91 outfits out there that “thumbed their noses at 121” or considered 121 pilots unsophisticated bus drivers. I had always heard the opposite being 121 driver jobs (AA/CO/NW/DL/UA/US) all required a bachelors degree while the majority of those who made a career out of part 91 lacked a college degree and therefore spent a career carrying someone else’s golf clubs around. SWA traditionally hired more 91 pilots than everyone else combined but it was rare for a corporate guy/gal to go to a legacy without going to a commuter first. Interesting to hear this for sure!
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