I was wondering if anyone has and would be willing to share copies of their contracts for flying.

Our perspective employer has decided to take on a couple partners and register through a LLC. We will be both flying and managing the plane. I was looking for items that should be in the contract and those which I should ask for which I may overlook.

This is a salary position, is there a Max # of hours we should expect before asking for additional if the flying exceeds them?

Anyone that has contracts i can look at, please PM them if you are comfortable with posting in the open forum.

TIA

scott

 

I don't know of really anyone that has a 'contract'. I fly for a large part 91 department and this is how we work it:

We are given three 'hard days' per month, which can be scheduled days off. Per the corporation that employs us we receive our three weeks vacation each year, which increases every 5 years. Other than that, we get paid the same amount if we fly four days or twenty days per month. Added projects or assignments don't change our pay.

Management positions have higher salaries than a line pilot. The only people that I know who holds onto a contract also pays a union due. I personally don't feel it blends into corporate/private flight department type operations.

My experience has been that unless your job scope has changed to the point of a new job title, a salary adjustment really isn't warranted. You might see a few extra percent at the end of the year if you work for good employers... but that is all I would expect.

Good luck, hopefully you can set up this management company to be a positive work environment.

 

Thank you for the input. Our original plan and asking salary was based on flying for 2 partners, now there is talk of 5. I am really looking for input on what should be expected for a 2 pilot department that will be managing the plane also. What should be spelled out and what should be common knowledge etc.

thanks

(forgot to add this bit....2 of the partners can't understand why we are expecting so much more than the 30-35K that regional pilots make! )

 

5 partners and 2 pilots.....and asking why not 30-35k?

Jesus Christ, run now.

 

...my thoughts too, but since I'm not employed, there really isn't anywhere to run.

Now, I have absolutely 0 intentions of flying for 5 owners for 35K, but I want to have a solid "game plan" of what we are sking for before I come back to them. That was the reason for the post.

I need this to work, but i would like to actually be happy too. (if that is at all possible!)

 

I get the big picture- suddenly you're looking at 5 users of the aircraft versus two. Big difference.

In my experience you need to get a grasp on the expected number of flight hours. Anything over 500/year on the aircraft justifies 3 full-time pilots with a budget for contract labor. If you have a full-time technician it would be nice for him to have some part-time help as well (for late night arrival/early morning departure situations). I think its great to have 3 guys with a contract PIC and SIC around; if you go to 4 pilots its hard to justify contract labor.

And which one of those three pilots deals with the schedule? That's usually the chief pilot, or if the department has a scheduler/admin. 5 users is a lot to balance, especially when the holidays are here.

As for the salary issues, I suggest getting a hold of the NBAA salary survey (yes, you would need to become a member and then purchase it). If not, there are countless guys on here with the pro pilot survey numbers. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those guys. Sorry.

In a nice presentation, the owners have to see the dollar amount of investment that goes into initial, recurrent and ancillary training each year (RVSM, P-RNAV, Med-Aire etc). They need to understand that lower salary leads to turnover which leads to a higher budget at the end of the year regardless. If they get it- great. If not....good luck.

And lastly, there are many 'consultants' which will charge a lot to help set up a department. Some are great, others are bottom feeders. Be alert.

Let the fun begin! This could be a great opportunity.

 

My 2 cents. Make a list of every duty that is involved with operating the aircraft. Once they see all the behind the scenes work that goes into it this will help you better justify a competitive salary. Airlines guy's show up at engine start and leave after shutdown, and don't have the side duties corporate does. Also the regionals are paying for the lack of experience.

 

Thank you, I hope this turns out to be a long term job. I feel a few obvious examples should quickly show the difference in salary...

ie)

Can we just leave after the flight (no clean up of cabin)
Who is going to take care of the fuel/hanger/ice/fees for the evening?
Did you expect the pilots to help with bags and transportation?
Were we supposed to plan the flight or were you guys going to get dispatchers?

...I hope it will be a short conversation!

 

Hours flown per year has nothing to do with how many pilots you need. You need to get an idea of how many flying-work-ron nights per year.....and with 5 partners my guess would be 365.

Plus you will manage everything? What kind of plane are we talking? Doing Intl flying? Shopping fuel, managing expenses, paying bills etc? Its a full time job.

Big question also...got a good mechanic/tech? Who is going to babysit mx?

Anything hollow like "we will get a 3rd pilot or contractors as needed later, etc etc" is 100% worthless and should be treated as such. Get it all coming in the door or its gone. Planes run on budgets, stay in control of yours. Leave room to breathe.

Overestimate....because new owners (and 5 of them??) always, always underestimate their flying....

Good Luck to you!

 

Other things to look into are how expenses are paid. I would highly recommend you demand a company credit card. Also what kind of hotels are used, airline travel, rental cars, and meals.
For myself, Marriotts and Hiltons are the standard, I have a company CC for expenses that include hotels, meals and other travel expenses. And airline flights of 6 hrs or more is business or better.