bcrosier

That's not new to post 9-11, it's been the scenario for years - but you are correct it's why many corporate departments won't consider airline pilots. When I was in the corporate world, experience and type rating in the equipment were a plus, but we were much more interested in hiring the correct person than saving money on training. You saved money by hiring someone who would stick around so you weren't re-hiring and retraining six months or a year later. Airline pilots are NOTORIOUS for doing this in corporate aviation - hence the aversion to wasting time and money on them.

USMCFLYR

bcrosier -

When you were involved in hiring / training for a corporate flight department, what was your experience with military pilots wanting to come into the corporate side of aviation?

Did you find that they were looking for a stop-gap measure prior to getting on with an airline? Most military pilots obviously come out of the military without a type rating and many won't have the total time that you often see posted for such positions (even the heavy guys and most likely the fighter/attack guys) unless they spent quite a bit of time in the training commands or got a tour or two flying C-21, UC-35, or some other aircraft with the 89th or similiar squadron in the other services (USN/USMC VR squadrons).

I ask this because I was always looking for the 'big' corporate job when I got out of the military (or gov't job) and having to have 5,000 total time or type ratings for instance was a big obstacle for me. Obvisously the networking was key as has been mentioned here and in other posts a million times, especially relating to corporate flying.

USMCFLYR

bcrosier

Honestly, I don't remember looking at anyone directly out of the military, which sounds sort of odd, but we were a small operation, and not located near any military bases. That said we did hire one ex-military guy who worked out very well (he's now flying a G-550). He had been at a regional, and worked outside of aviation for a while prior to coming to us.

Again, I think the underlying theme is we tried to look for someone who fit in and wanted to be in our operation, regardless of where they came from. My thought is that military pilots would be like any other group - a wide variation between individuals as to what their ultimate goals are. Some would be looking to build time, some looking for a place to stay. Our goal was to find the people who wanted to stay a while.

I've never been in a large department operating bigger equipment, but my impression is that those departments aren't typically looking for someone without some history in the corporate community - again the whole networking thing. The type of flying you did in the military could be a feather in your cap - someone who did flying similar to corporate might be considered. The key being, we want someone who understands what being a corporate pilot is all about, and flying the airplane is only a small part of that.

cobber

I second that. Most flight departments wont look at airline guys unless they have a copy of their letter of resignation and release of their seniority number. Ive actually seen adds on the job boards that say (and I think this is a little over the top) "Airline pilots need not apply".

USMCFLYR

I've have to say that this might be dependent on the community from which they come - I'm not sure since I only have experience in one community. I can say with much certainty that in my experience, I was just about the ONLY person who had his eye on some sort of corporate / government flying job after the military. Only in the last 5 years or so did I finally see other peers/seniors become interested in the corporate / fractional models or the gov't CBP jobs for instance.

During the mid-90s and early 2000 timeframe, not one of my peers that I know of went anywhere other than P121 flying and most gave me the 'oh young naive one' look when I would say that I was interested in anything other than P121 flying.

I do know that a few went on to corporate careers. I know one with Home Depot, two others with Gulfstream out of Savannah, eventually two went to NJA (both furloughed now) and one directly to NJI (probably one of the last direct hires. He had come off his final tour flying the Commandant's Gulfstream around). I have been in contact with a few other former military types who have a P91 Gulfstream job and a BBJ with Boeing Corp; point being I know they are out there - - but I agree that it isn't a plethera and with contacts being so important it seems to be an especially hard segment to break into.

USMCFLYR

mtbthis

In regards to type ratings, how does that work? Companies may hire you if you don't have a type rating but how do most people go about getting them? Paying for it themselves? And then how do they build the hours? Seems like a catch 22...

Crossroads123

This is my first post on this site. I recently resigned from an FO position at a 121 regional. I was there for three years. I have just over 3000 hours. Long term I just couldn't see how pursuing an airline career would ever really give me the quality of life I really want. Rather than sit around and complain I decided to reach for some other goals. Im planning on continuing my education, and I fly in a very part time capacity for a company.
Im just wondering if any of you corporate guise can offer me any advice. I would love to find the right corporate job and keep flying. Having done some corporate flying in the past I know its not all roses. I also know its super competitve right now. I have no illusions that I'll walk right into my dream job. I would like to start down this road though and get my foot in the door. Is there any other advice beyond networking. Should I go pay to get my ATP? How do I be the guy they are looking for?

cobber

It is. Thats the problem.

BoilerUP

Its not impossible, but really difficult to be seriously considered for 99% of corporate jobs without an ATP - especially in tight times.

That said, I was hired at my current employer back in late 2007 without an ATP, without any type ratings, and as a regional jet FO - but I was very well connected which served to only get me the interview, not the job.

cobber

Wow I feel like I am reading my own story. No matter what you do now your quality of life will be better

Wasnt Expressjet was it?

I think the advice you will find across the board is that the key to corporate is networking. If you live in a larger city you will probably have more options than if you lived in saaaaaay Brownsville, TX. You can hover around FBOs but they generally cant give you any info or contact names to the resident flight departments because of privacy issues. Your best bet is to head to the airport in business casual or higher and start knocking on doors with a resume in your hands. Don't leave without the chief pilots business card and then email or call them periodically to let them know you are still interested. Its tough though, most of the jobs are not advertised and the people that get the interviews are the ones that are persistent. I suppose persistent is a relative word and theres a fine line between persistent and annoying but I dont know if thats a call once a month (which is what I did) or every 6 months.

As unbelievable as it might sound corporate can be more reactive than airlines when it comes to hiring. A department might not need people for several years and then all of a sudden they needed someone 2 weeks ago. When you lose someone on a private plane theres no reserves to fill the gap which leaves you with contractors. That gets very expensive if you are operating a larger aircraft that flies frequently. Just getting out and talking to people is the best you can do, they will start to remember your face etc. One more thing I might add is that because your resume has 3 years of airline flying on it I would stress right away that you have no interest in flying for the airlines anymore. If you read the threads its a pretty common theme that airline pilots are not highly sought after in the 91 sector.