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"Full Service"

Old 10-08-2016, 06:24 AM
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Default "Full Service"

I'm not very familiar with corporate aviation but a headhunter sent out a job targeted at military pilots for a rocky mountain based family. One of the things in the job description was full service with the following bullet:

"This is a full-service role. All four pilots help in maintaining the two aircraft and support passengers as needed. 85% of time is spent maintaining, preparing and planning for flight operations; 15% of time is actual flying. They fly 400 hours per year. All pilots act as bodyguards and butlers. you are armed with a right-to-carry permit."

What does this actually translate to meaning? I'm not so sure being a pilot/bodyguard/butler is a very good job...
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FlewNavy View Post
I'm not very familiar with corporate aviation but a headhunter sent out a job targeted at military pilots for a rocky mountain based family. One of the things in the job description was full service with the following bullet:

"This is a full-service role. All four pilots help in maintaining the two aircraft and support passengers as needed. 85% of time is spent maintaining, preparing and planning for flight operations; 15% of time is actual flying. They fly 400 hours per year. All pilots act as bodyguards and butlers. you are armed with a right-to-carry permit."

What does this actually translate to meaning? I'm not so sure being a pilot/bodyguard/butler is a very good job...
This is a request for a person to be an all in one. Pilot, mechanic, dispatcher, scheduler, chauffeur, Chuck Norris, Logistics expert, etc.

A real flying job is 80% flying....20% prep.
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:49 AM
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Run in the opposite direction. Quickly.
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Old 10-08-2016, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BPWI View Post
Run in the opposite direction. Quickly.
+1.

They want a B1tch Boy that can also fly a plane. Screw that.
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Old 10-08-2016, 02:59 PM
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Everything has a price.
Give them a VERY large number.
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Old 10-08-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Vital Signs View Post
Everything has a price.
Give them a VERY large number.
The number they are offering isn't big enough and my timing doesn't support their needs anyway. All my transition research up this point has been towards 121 jobs. I've just started peeling back the onion on corporate work and just wondered if this kind of thing is standard. I personally don't want to be liable for any duties outside of flying. I'd hate to get fired from my flying job for not pouring the right champagne or being not holding the door properly. Pilots for the uber rich are "the help" and that is to be expected but this sounds a bit excessive.
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Old 10-08-2016, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FlewNavy View Post
The number they are offering isn't big enough and my timing doesn't support their needs anyway. All my transition research up this point has been towards 121 jobs. I've just started peeling back the onion on corporate work and just wondered if this kind of thing is standard. I personally don't want to be liable for any duties outside of flying. I'd hate to get fired from my flying job for not pouring the right champagne or being not holding the door properly. Pilots for the uber rich are "the help" and that is to be expected but this sounds a bit excessive.
This is not normal by any stretch of the imagination. There are good corporate pilot jobs (good pay, QOL, benefits and fly well maintained aircraft) and bad corporate pilot jobs (the reverse of the above) as with most things in life. You'll know the right opportunity when you see it.

You might be interested in this written by a friend of mine:
Career Advice for Air Force Pilots
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Old 10-08-2016, 04:45 PM
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Walk away and let some other non self respecting soul deal with it.
Sad that employers still offer this and even sadder that people accept it.
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Old 10-08-2016, 05:00 PM
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400 hrs / year split over how many pilots?
You'll be washing cars and painting hangars too.
You'll be driving kids to school and picking up their dry cleaning.
That's not a pilot job.

I've flown 135 for two years and it's surprising many pilots don't have any sense of etiquette or just common sense manners.
Swearing in front of passengers just being one of the skin crawlers.
On my exit interview actually recommended the General Manager to spend some money on etiquette training.
Get a company in to do some role play scenarios so you don't stand there and go uh...uh....uh...well *** I don't know...

The above job is for a flying butler as they don't want to spend the money to split the clearly different positions.
Walk away and find a pilot job where your skills are appreciated.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FlewNavy View Post
The number they are offering isn't big enough and my timing doesn't support their needs anyway. All my transition research up this point has been towards 121 jobs. I've just started peeling back the onion on corporate work and just wondered if this kind of thing is standard. I personally don't want to be liable for any duties outside of flying. I'd hate to get fired from my flying job for not pouring the right champagne or being not holding the door properly. Pilots for the uber rich are "the help" and that is to be expected but this sounds a bit excessive.
And this is why the charter world is something to avoid if possible. Also, I doubt using a CCW in a deadly use of force scenario to protect some rich people will pass the sniff test in court. That position entails being a licensed, armed guard usually working for a company with a huge insurance policy and the lawyers to back it up. As I have said elsewhere, 121 is the way to go.
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