Man-made in a Wuhan lab?
05-31-2021, 07:52 AM
#92
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,487
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Did it scape from China? Yes.
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Ask the question why support the research of GoF in China and not the USA? Maybe the “not in my backyard” argument?
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Read this article from 2014. The “experts” and “science” so many holler to follow know this is extremely dangerous research. In the article, again 2014, they estimate the possibility of millions dying from an escaped man manipulated virus.
1) Wuhan was doing GoF reserach that produced covid or;
2) The bug escaped from the lab
One, both, or neither are all possible and we just don't know. Hopefully we will eventually, like I said it does matter.
And yes polarized politicians are spring-loaded to jump to conclusions that align with their party's alternate reality.
05-31-2021, 08:08 AM
#93
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,695
Most people live in their own bubble - in total ignorance of the real world. They have bought in to the pleasant fantasy that the rain forests are lovely places and that if we could only live in harmony with nature we would enter in to some new golden age. The reality is anything but.
Mother nature is a b|tch and up until the industrial revolution people spent 80% of their waking life searching for food, laboring to grow food, laboring to harvest food, laboring to transport food, or laboring to steal food from the other guy.
Evolution never stopped and there was always someone out there - from nation state all the way down to the virus (or prion) who was fighting to dominate.
Rainforests? Yeah, they are diverse alright, that’s where the fight is the most intense even now:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...re-on-the-rise
And the more we are in contact with them, the greater the likelihood of disaster.
Ebola Reston Outbreaks
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article..._2/S131/858753
it’s STILL a jungle out there.
Mother nature is a b|tch and up until the industrial revolution people spent 80% of their waking life searching for food, laboring to grow food, laboring to harvest food, laboring to transport food, or laboring to steal food from the other guy.
Evolution never stopped and there was always someone out there - from nation state all the way down to the virus (or prion) who was fighting to dominate.
Rainforests? Yeah, they are diverse alright, that’s where the fight is the most intense even now:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...re-on-the-rise
And the more we are in contact with them, the greater the likelihood of disaster.
Ebola Reston Outbreaks
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article..._2/S131/858753
it’s STILL a jungle out there.
05-31-2021, 09:45 AM
#94
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,848
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Far more likely that they were studying the Coronavirus and had a containment breakdown and the rest has become history.....
I do believe the lab was involved, blame placed on the wet markets, and a massive coverup and publicity wipe by PRC.
I do believe the lab was involved, blame placed on the wet markets, and a massive coverup and publicity wipe by PRC.
05-31-2021, 10:03 AM
#95
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,487
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Mother nature is a b|tch and up until the industrial revolution people spent 80% of their waking life searching for food, laboring to grow food, laboring to harvest food, laboring to transport food, or laboring to steal food from the other guy.
Same for many pre-industrial revolution ag societies.
Obviously life *could* be rough back in the day, say if it was a bad year and you had to hustle, or in a feudal system where the lord might work the peasants to the bone and appropriate the fruits of their labor.
But yes, tribal warfare was perennial in most such societies.
05-31-2021, 10:49 AM
#97
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,848
Originally Posted by at6d
Communism and covering up disasters is nothing new. Saturday 26 April 1986, the town of Pripyat, Ukranian USSR was experiencing an anomaly. Nothing to see here—it’s all under control.
05-31-2021, 11:12 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by rickair7777
No way to say that. It's possible but they simply need more info (ie more cooperation from PRC) to know for sure. Maybe PRC already knows for sure. The right answer matters, and it's important to get it right... as opposed to defaulting to no because you're bought by/afraid of PRC, or defaulting to yes because you hate PRC.
Like many other shady activities, being outlawed/regulated in some places just pushes it to other places, with more laissez faire attitudes.
Nothing new, no secret there. It's possible, doesn't mean that...
1) Wuhan was doing GoF reserach that produced covid or;
2) The bug escaped from the lab
One, both, or neither are all possible and we just don't know. Hopefully we will eventually, like I said it does matter.
And yes polarized politicians are spring-loaded to jump to conclusions that align with their party's alternate reality.
Like many other shady activities, being outlawed/regulated in some places just pushes it to other places, with more laissez faire attitudes.
Nothing new, no secret there. It's possible, doesn't mean that...
1) Wuhan was doing GoF reserach that produced covid or;
2) The bug escaped from the lab
One, both, or neither are all possible and we just don't know. Hopefully we will eventually, like I said it does matter.
And yes polarized politicians are spring-loaded to jump to conclusions that align with their party's alternate reality.
You want to sound like the reasonable man, but in the end you’re sounding more like Chamberlain than anything.
The body of evidence clearly points to the Wuhan Lab and the Government (s) attempt to cover it up.
The debate over the risks and benefits of GoF research goes on. A little simple research uncovers the issues and possible previous failures to contain a pathogen. The problem is this time it did what they predicted, via proper statistical methods, it rapidly spread around the world.
One problem though, China is not in anyway the sole nation to blame. The USA actually has been funding such research for years. That is an undeniable fact.
The question is this, has the COVID pandemic scared enough people to stop the research or will passionate researchers continue to push the limits?
05-31-2021, 04:07 PM
#99
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,487
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Rick
You want to sound like the reasonable man, but in the end you’re sounding more like Chamberlain than anything.
The body of evidence clearly points to the Wuhan Lab and the Government (s) attempt to cover it up.
You want to sound like the reasonable man, but in the end you’re sounding more like Chamberlain than anything.
The body of evidence clearly points to the Wuhan Lab and the Government (s) attempt to cover it up.
Originally Posted by Regularguy
The debate over the risks and benefits of GoF research goes on. A little simple research uncovers the issues and possible previous failures to contain a pathogen. The problem is this time it did what they predicted, via proper statistical methods, it rapidly spread around the world.
One problem though, China is not in anyway the sole nation to blame. The USA actually has been funding such research for years. That is an undeniable fact.
The question is this, has the COVID pandemic scared enough people to stop the research or will passionate researchers continue to push the limits?
One problem though, China is not in anyway the sole nation to blame. The USA actually has been funding such research for years. That is an undeniable fact.
The question is this, has the COVID pandemic scared enough people to stop the research or will passionate researchers continue to push the limits?
The danger of *assuming* it came from the lab is that lets nature (via the wet markets/wildstock foodchain) off the hook, and we might not want to do that.
I'm no GoF advocate or apologist and the risks and tradeoff are the same regardless of where it's done or who pays for it. IF we're going to do that it certainly needs to be rigorously contained with industrial-strength protocols, as I mentioned before. The professionals need to analyze, assess and recommend whether we *should* be doing GoF, and the pols need to make an informed decision. You as an individual are of course free to influence the pols. In the US anyway.
I'd let the pros make the call yea or nay, but if it's yea I'd advocate imposing strict protocols (that the science people won't like because their QOL will suck in Antarctica or the like).
06-01-2021, 01:41 AM
#100
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by Regularguy
Rick
You want to sound like the reasonable man, but in the end you’re sounding more like Chamberlain than anything.
The body of evidence clearly points to the Wuhan Lab and the Government (s) attempt to cover it up.
The debate over the risks and benefits of GoF research goes on. A little simple research uncovers the issues and possible previous failures to contain a pathogen. The problem is this time it did what they predicted, via proper statistical methods, it rapidly spread around the world.
One problem though, China is not in anyway the sole nation to blame. The USA actually has been funding such research for years. That is an undeniable fact.
The question is this, has the COVID pandemic scared enough people to stop the research or will passionate researchers continue to push the limits?
You want to sound like the reasonable man, but in the end you’re sounding more like Chamberlain than anything.
The body of evidence clearly points to the Wuhan Lab and the Government (s) attempt to cover it up.
The debate over the risks and benefits of GoF research goes on. A little simple research uncovers the issues and possible previous failures to contain a pathogen. The problem is this time it did what they predicted, via proper statistical methods, it rapidly spread around the world.
One problem though, China is not in anyway the sole nation to blame. The USA actually has been funding such research for years. That is an undeniable fact.
The question is this, has the COVID pandemic scared enough people to stop the research or will passionate researchers continue to push the limits?
https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/tech/2967814/facebook-reverses-ban-on-calling-covid-19-man-made/
We ought to be able to ask questions and in turn press our government officials to do the same.
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