SAABoroowski

nailed it........

Excargodog

which are all still around...

Excargodog

We had, as I stated in the original Posting in this thread, a highly effective vaccination against smallpox, a disease with about a 35% mortality. With international coordination and the assistance if even the old Soviet Union, we were able to make smallpox extinct in 1980, a mere 180 years after the vaccine was available. A good polio vaccine was available in 1955. We still have not eliminated it internationally. measles...same thing. A good vaccine was developed in the late 1969s. Yet measles still killed 140,000 people in 2018 and probably more in 2019.

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/mea...soutbreaks.htm

One would do well to not underestimate the logistics issues of international vaCcination programs.

then there are the antivaxxers...., not just in the US either,

Duffman

Those are your binary decisions? You're trying to drive everyone to your preferred option (which is terrible) by comparing it to a completely unrealistic extreme. That's a strawman:

"an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."


Let's break this down



Way to minimize masks, which have been discussed ad naseum.

Here's an article about how hairstylists with COVID19 didn't infect any of their 140 clients. I sincerely doubt the masks hurt the situation. If I knew I could get a haircut from someone with COVID and have a 0 in 140 chance of getting the virus, I'd probably get a haircut from them even if I knew they had COVID. That's good for business.

https://www.livescience.com/hair-sty...ace-masks.html

Also, I'm sure this isn't good if you own a small bar or restaurant, but plenty of businesses don't need a packed house to turn a profit. In fact, I'd say most businesses don't. And if you can't make it work, like on a plane, that's what the masks are for.



This I agree with, except for the "experts" part. If you're referring to the entire medical community at large and the CDC, nobody agreed with what the Governors of FL, TX, and AZ were doing. Listening to politicians in complete denial of reality who refused to listen to their "experts" is what caused this:

Florida and AZ politicians both tried to obstruct researchers from sounding alarms. It ended predictably.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/87658...ard-of-her-own

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...pause-covid-19

Don't make excuses for the very people who led you off the cliff instead of holding them accountable, so they can lead you off a cliff again. The economy can't take much more of this jackassery and no matter how much you want us to just all get herd immunity by getting the virus like some third world country, that's not going to happen. Medical care is the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country for a reason. As soon as a few people die, people will stop at nothing to protect their families, which includes voluntarily tanking the economy.

Also, I can guarantee that the deaths will be in direct proportion to the daily cases with a 2-3 week delay, just like they have been this entire time. Although, 6 months in they have developed better treatment methods from trial and error and it seems younger people are the ones getting it, so there'll probably be slight deviations.



That misinformation is part of what's driving the pandemic. Turns out restaurants and bars are likely huge vectors whereas grocery stores are not:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this...rus-cases.html

Which makes perfect logical sense. In a bar or restaurant you're constantly shoving stuff in your mouth and not wearing a mask while in a public space, that's likely indoors and maybe crowded.



That has nothing to do with anything and it's extremely biased. I sincerely doubt BLM protestors showing up to capital buildings with AR15s would've ended as peacefully. Also, plenty of Governors and state politicians were very publicly anti-mask in the states that, shockingly, have the largest outbreaks right now.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe.../#1a92c4a45184


It just blows my mind how so many people are doing everything except what the "experts" say then acting surprised when the virus is sky rocketing. Then, instead of just accepting that maybe all the trend data from the more successful locations isn't a fluke, they double down on doing self-destructive BS. Are you guys trying to crash the economy, because if I wanted to crash the economy I'd follow your playbook. Once the public at large loses confidence in going out in public, the economy is likely toast until a vaccine comes along.

Excargodog

Bad Florida. Bad....

https://ibb.co/RbvNKLM
Whoops!..,,

kingairfun

Well in true fashion, I assume democratic fashion, you've completely missed the point of why people are way less fearful and more willing to forego the CDC recommendations..

So I'll re-brake it own for you.

Masks and distancing:

-Restaurants cannot turn a profit with 50% capacity. Margins are generally too thin. I live in a tourist State, most restaurants are either closing or choosing not to open with the 50% rules in place.

- It is certain you have never owned a business? I have.. 50% won't cut it for a majority of businesses, let alone restaurants.
-How many N95 masks do ya see out there? We've basically become a society wearing underwear on our face... ( yet you assume I don't wear a mask. I do and don't complain about it when I'm in a business that requires it. Yet I understand that the handkerchief around my face is in no way an approved virus defending device.

-SO you are saying we did not close small businesses (you assumed I was talking about only bars and restaurants, because you are triggered) and keep Walmart, Costco, Target, Lowes and Home Depot open? Man where do you live? Where the rest of us live, the only place to go was those exact stores... And to top it off they closed down most of the registers and forced everyone into a small area of registers.. Guess I dreamed that when I was standing in line.... You don't even need CNN to tell you that's what happened. I also guess all those small businesses closing for good, never saw their profits drop to zero?

- Where the hell did I talk about herd immunity... The words "herd immunity" never presented themselves in my post. You literally just pulled that out of thin air.. What I said was we have 2 choices..... Close it all down for a year or more or don't.. Closing it down for a year does no good because as soon as you open, the virus is back... We started this to buy hospitals time, not eradicate the virus. Atleast by opening we have a fighting chance at a future not derailed for 10 years. Which BTW covers the entirety of my kids time left at home (what would be left of their home) college, and inherently their mid to late 20's.. We basically would be guaranteeing a large chunk of their lifetime stuck in near poverty or living off the system. ( Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money)

You make it sound like FL, TX and AZ are oh so bad because they are having a spike in numbers.. Yet, lets look at the top 5 worst States for cases and deaths... Sure, NY set a fine example!! Yeah real model for how we should approach the virus... 3-4 times worse numbers than every other State out there. And FL, TX and AZ have been open for 2 months... It's not necessarily their policies that were bad, it's the young people who stopped caring because of the reasons I originally posted.

Let me ask you this... Up to this point, have you seen or read any "expert" opinions, gov't rules or anything else that didn't make you think.. "WTF?"

If the leaders and experts would have gotten things a bit more accurate or handled the lockdowns a bit more logical, maybe, just maybe, people would have trusted their directives.

kingairfun

They don't like fancy graphs and real stats..

rickair7777

I think the fact that we're most likely going to end up with multiple vaccinations developed in multiple countries will help. Different countries can, and likely will, use different vaccines and also share their vaccines as necessary. That will make it harder for mutations to side-step a single vaccine. Also worth pointing out that mutation opportunities are proportional to active cases, so dramatically fewer cases (vaccination/herd immunity) will translate to less opportunity for mutation.

Most of the countries on which we rely as partners in the global economy will achieve wide-spread vaccination and herd immunity. If venezula or liberia does not, oh well. Herd immunity (and government action) will protect us and our economic partners from any outbreaks which come out of left field. As you said, many dangerous bugs are still floating around and rear their heads occasionally. None of those have global economic consequences. Covid won't either.

Mesabah

The fact that the death rate is falling would most likely indicate that the total number of cases is actually falling, not rising. This virus is very very political, it's best to wait till after the election to get real information.

kingairfun

Yup... I'm guessing sometime in mid-late October we'll shift to election rhetoric... Covid cases will be down, and media will have moved on... A few weeks after the election Covid may be a thing of the past in terms of news coverage, and all that's left will be the skeleton of what was a healthy economy. Unfortunately, while a lot of low-medium income workers go on UI and make close to what they were making, pilots will go from bringing home 10-20k a month to $2-3k with few prospects in our field of expertise.