TSA Numbers
11-17-2020, 11:37 AM
#1381
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,281
Originally Posted by AirlineAnalyst
I get it - he said don't wear masks early in the pandemic. This was a brand-new virus that no-one had experience with (and we were probably lied to by China) and he made the comments in early March.
Here is what really happened. The good doctor and other health professionals purposely lied to the people that it was not necessary to wear masks to stop the virus because they were worried about the public hoarding them like they were hoarding TP and Paper Towels leaving none for the medical professionals who needed them the most. They lied for the "greater good" and it backfired big time. That is why it is never a good policy to lie no matter how much you think it is helping things out. When more masks were manufactured that a shortage wasn't a concern anymore they all just magically changed their minds. But guess what? The damage was already done. Sorry, but they have nobody to blame but themselves for the damage they did to the public's perception of mask wearing. Dr. Faci is a sweet old man I'm sure, but vastly overrated.
11-17-2020, 11:48 AM
#1382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,236
Originally Posted by AirlineAnalyst
It is really better not to engage with people like that.
Dr. Fauci has a Presidential Medal of Freedom awarded from a Republican President.
He has served this country for half a century and worked with administrations lead by both parties.
I get it - he said don't wear masks early in the pandemic. This was a brand-new virus that no-one had experience with (and we were probably lied to by China) and he made the comments in early March.
People make mistakes. It happens - we have all made mistakes. He gives recommendations regarding public health and how best to manage the spread. How to weigh those public health measures versus the impact on the economy from limiting indoor capacity or implementing curfews is made by other people. Some jurisdictions have decided to not impose any measures. Some have decided to severely limit the indoor activities that people can pursue.
The subtext to this entire thread is that the pandemic has directly affected the livelihoods of many on this board - as such the vitriol is understandable but still not warranted. Dr. Fauci doesn't deserve death threats against him and his family.
I am assuming most on this thread are men so I'll give some unsolicited and probably unwanted advice - be stoic. Life will always throw curveballs at you - don't get upset, learn a new skill or start a side business so that you are never in a position that one person or event can so negatively impact your life that you act like a child and pout.
COVID sucks for everyone.
The people (in this thread) who insisted that cases are not important "a casedemic" and instead to focus on hospitalizations and deaths are oddly quiet now. Hospitalizations hit a record high yesterday in the US. Deaths have not been this high since May.
Hospitalization lag cases by 11-13 days. Deaths lag hospitalizations by a similar amount.
Dr. Fauci has a Presidential Medal of Freedom awarded from a Republican President.
He has served this country for half a century and worked with administrations lead by both parties.
I get it - he said don't wear masks early in the pandemic. This was a brand-new virus that no-one had experience with (and we were probably lied to by China) and he made the comments in early March.
People make mistakes. It happens - we have all made mistakes. He gives recommendations regarding public health and how best to manage the spread. How to weigh those public health measures versus the impact on the economy from limiting indoor capacity or implementing curfews is made by other people. Some jurisdictions have decided to not impose any measures. Some have decided to severely limit the indoor activities that people can pursue.
The subtext to this entire thread is that the pandemic has directly affected the livelihoods of many on this board - as such the vitriol is understandable but still not warranted. Dr. Fauci doesn't deserve death threats against him and his family.
I am assuming most on this thread are men so I'll give some unsolicited and probably unwanted advice - be stoic. Life will always throw curveballs at you - don't get upset, learn a new skill or start a side business so that you are never in a position that one person or event can so negatively impact your life that you act like a child and pout.
COVID sucks for everyone.
The people (in this thread) who insisted that cases are not important "a casedemic" and instead to focus on hospitalizations and deaths are oddly quiet now. Hospitalizations hit a record high yesterday in the US. Deaths have not been this high since May.
Hospitalization lag cases by 11-13 days. Deaths lag hospitalizations by a similar amount.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1a3S7tKmbA
He shouldn't be on magazine covers, he shouldn't be worshipped as a deity. He is full of it and should be fired. Government is bad at what they do and he is symbolic of the harm of placing too much trust in our bureaucracy. The lockdowns, mask waffling, the CDC test debacle. Our government is not good at what they do.
11-17-2020, 12:11 PM
#1383
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by LoneStar32
ohh, that was the reason? That's cute. Was this virus different from every other virus where somehow masks were ineffective? What "new" information caused them to change their mind?
Here is what really happened. The good doctor and other health professionals purposely lied to the people that it was not necessary to wear masks to stop the virus because they were worried about the public hoarding them like they were hoarding TP and Paper Towels leaving none for the medical professionals who needed them the most. They lied for the "greater good" and it backfired big time. That is why it is never a good policy to lie no matter how much you think it is helping things out. When more masks were manufactured that a shortage wasn't a concern anymore they all just magically changed their minds. But guess what? The damage was already done. Sorry, but they have nobody to blame but themselves for the damage they did to the public's perception of mask wearing. Dr. Faci is a sweet old man I'm sure, but vastly overrated.
Here is what really happened. The good doctor and other health professionals purposely lied to the people that it was not necessary to wear masks to stop the virus because they were worried about the public hoarding them like they were hoarding TP and Paper Towels leaving none for the medical professionals who needed them the most. They lied for the "greater good" and it backfired big time. That is why it is never a good policy to lie no matter how much you think it is helping things out. When more masks were manufactured that a shortage wasn't a concern anymore they all just magically changed their minds. But guess what? The damage was already done. Sorry, but they have nobody to blame but themselves for the damage they did to the public's perception of mask wearing. Dr. Faci is a sweet old man I'm sure, but vastly overrated.
Let's work under the condition that you are correct.
As a rational economic agent and human - what is the most appropriate course of action for you as an individual now? There are two paths that are exhaustive: masks are beneficial or they are not beneficial.
1) If you believe that masks are beneficial and effective, then while you may be upset - it makes sense to wear them. Otherwise, you are endangering yourself and your contacts, and the contacts of your contacts. Remember, this is the scenario where you believe masks are beneficial.
2) If you don't believe masks are beneficial - then his lie did not impact you at all regarding mask usage.
I've read through your prior posts and while I have addressed your comment - I don't plan on doing so any further.
Many on this forum are vile and I remember now why I began limiting my time here.
11-17-2020, 12:34 PM
#1385
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 112
Feinstein not following mask mandate:
https://twitter.com/therecount/statu...801431553?s=21
Hospitalizations have gone up partly because they are including observation beds in the counts now:
https://twitter.com/ajkaywriter/stat...530910722?s=21
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
https://twitter.com/therecount/statu...801431553?s=21
Hospitalizations have gone up partly because they are including observation beds in the counts now:
https://twitter.com/ajkaywriter/stat...530910722?s=21
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
11-17-2020, 12:41 PM
#1386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,236
Originally Posted by emersonbiguns
Maybe one of you anti-mask nutters could show us on the doll how the bad doctor made you wear the mask?
11-17-2020, 12:44 PM
#1387
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by AirlineAnalyst
Let's work under the condition that you are correct.
As a rational economic agent and human - what is the most appropriate course of action for you as an individual now? There are two paths that are exhaustive: masks are beneficial or they are not beneficial.
1) If you believe that masks are beneficial and effective, then while you may be upset - it makes sense to wear them. Otherwise, you are endangering yourself and your contacts, and the contacts of your contacts. Remember, this is the scenario where you believe masks are beneficial.
2) If you don't believe masks are beneficial - then his lie did not impact you at all regarding mask usage.
I've read through your prior posts and while I have addressed your comment - I don't plan on doing so any further.
Many on this forum are vile and I remember now why I began limiting my time here.
As a rational economic agent and human - what is the most appropriate course of action for you as an individual now? There are two paths that are exhaustive: masks are beneficial or they are not beneficial.
1) If you believe that masks are beneficial and effective, then while you may be upset - it makes sense to wear them. Otherwise, you are endangering yourself and your contacts, and the contacts of your contacts. Remember, this is the scenario where you believe masks are beneficial.
2) If you don't believe masks are beneficial - then his lie did not impact you at all regarding mask usage.
I've read through your prior posts and while I have addressed your comment - I don't plan on doing so any further.
Many on this forum are vile and I remember now why I began limiting my time here.
There is no positive correlation between reduction in COVID cases and death as mitigation measures are increased in the western world.
https://fee.org/articles/how-finland...ovid-19-works/
Aside from full scale lockdowns there is an inverse correlation between mask wearing and other reductions in freedom vs. COVID outcomes.
An outstanding example is comparing the responses of Belgium and Netherlands and their (thus far) COVID outcomes.
Belgium has had two full-scale lockdowns and mandated mask wearing most of the summer yet their COVID deaths are multiple times higher than NL, yet NL is more dense population and a bit older, and hasn’t ordered any mask wearing until about one month ago.
COVID mitigation policies are largely destructive — therefore to say mask wearing doesn’t hurt anyone, or to advocate it is benign, is absurd.
11-17-2020, 01:33 PM
#1389
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
But the world isn’t black and white and we don’t use Strawman arguments in lieu of empirical scientific data.
There is no positive correlation between reduction in COVID cases and death as mitigation measures are increased in the western world.
https://fee.org/articles/how-finland...ovid-19-works/
Aside from full scale lockdowns there is an inverse correlation between mask wearing and other reductions in freedom vs. COVID outcomes.
An outstanding example is comparing the responses of Belgium and Netherlands and their (thus far) COVID outcomes.
Belgium has had two full-scale lockdowns and mandated mask wearing most of the summer yet their COVID deaths are multiple times higher than NL, yet NL is more dense population and a bit older, and hasn’t ordered any mask wearing until about one month ago.
COVID mitigation policies are largely destructive — therefore to say mask wearing doesn’t hurt anyone, or to advocate it is benign, is absurd.
There is no positive correlation between reduction in COVID cases and death as mitigation measures are increased in the western world.
https://fee.org/articles/how-finland...ovid-19-works/
Aside from full scale lockdowns there is an inverse correlation between mask wearing and other reductions in freedom vs. COVID outcomes.
An outstanding example is comparing the responses of Belgium and Netherlands and their (thus far) COVID outcomes.
Belgium has had two full-scale lockdowns and mandated mask wearing most of the summer yet their COVID deaths are multiple times higher than NL, yet NL is more dense population and a bit older, and hasn’t ordered any mask wearing until about one month ago.
COVID mitigation policies are largely destructive — therefore to say mask wearing doesn’t hurt anyone, or to advocate it is benign, is absurd.
That is empirically false.
Here are academic articles relating to Global Stringency Index and reduction of COVID cases and deaths.
1) Data from 170 Countries
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...OVID-19_Deaths
The primary outcome was deaths related to COVID-19, measured both in terms of maximum daily deaths and growth rate of daily deaths. Results: For each day of delay to reach an SI 40, the average daily growth rate in deaths was 0.087 percentage points higher (0.056 to 0.118, P<0.001).
2) Data from 125 Countries
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...sures_Mattered
Significant negative relationships are revealed for stringency index and lockdown date supporting the notion that lock down and social distanc-ing measures mattered and were effective.
3) Tradeoffs between health infrastructure and full lockdown in Taiwan and New Zealand.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...044-4/fulltext
Extensive public health infrastructure established in Taiwan pre-COVID-19 enabled a fast coordinated response, particularly in the domains of early screening, effective methods for isolation/quarantine, digital technologies for identifying potential cases and mass mask use. This timely and vigorous response allowed Taiwan to avoid the national lockdown used by New Zealand.
For some reason, I think that the link you provided to the "Foundation for Economic Education" - a libertarian think-tank - may not be the best source of health policy and outcomes.
And while you and I can both point to individual countries that may be exceptions - the academic, peer-reviewed research overwhelmingly refute your statement that "There is no positive correlation between reduction in COVID cases and death as mitigation measures are increased in the western world."
"in lieu of empirical scientific data." Great stuff.
11-17-2020, 01:46 PM
#1390
P/T Gear Slinger
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Airbus
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
Sure, right after one of you pro-mask nutters can show us one graph where covid-19 cases went down after a mask mandate.
There was a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after the mandating of face covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after the orders were signed. Specifically, the daily case rate declined by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21 or more days after signing, respectively. All of these declines were statistically significant (p<0.05 or less). In contrast, the pre-event trends in COVID-19 case growth rates were small and statistically insignificant.
Last edited by emersonbiguns; 05-04-2022 at 02:26 PM.
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