rickair7777

You can't help getting old. You also can't help it if you haven't had an opportunity to get vaccinated, but that will be OBE long before any nation gets around to mandating vaccine passports, I'd say Q4 at the earliest and even then it depends on how covid is doing.

It's different if you just refuse to do it. Kind of like refusing your EKG.

GeeWizDriver

I think that is a false comparison. An EKG measures your body. It doesn’t invade it.

Given the very limited track record of longer term vaccination effects, I can totally understand why some would delay and perhaps even refuse the vaccination.

If the company won’t terminate pilots for exceeding age limitations imposed by a destination country, why should they terminate a pilot for failing to meet a very similar “health” requirement of those other nations? Can’t have it both ways.

Gone Flying

good luck with that, legal precident sides with employers being able to require vaccinations.
best case scenario will be drop/no pay or forced to bid a majority domestic category (like the 717 at DL) But they likely will not be forced to keep you if you refuse the vaccine for non medical reasons.

rickair7777

In the airlines we use seniority. Nobody is going to get to choose to get get special out-of-seniority schedules because they choose not meet the job requirements.

In the airlines if some destinations were to somehow ban age 60+ pilots, then those pilots would probably have to bid domestic or DNP. Unions wouldn't have it any other way.

GeeWizDriver

We have seniority too (2400 pilots worth) but do not bid particular trips. We bid aircraft and our over-65 crowd routinely bid, and are awarded, aircraft whose primary mission is international. You show up for work and you can go anywhere from Anchorage to Aruba. Pure luck of the draw. Except they exclude our senior citizens from the trips destined for age limited countries. If they can make that distinction....

rickair7777

Nice of them but they're certainly required to do that (unless there's a union contract with that provision?). Generally, if you can't go to the job site, you don't get to keep the job.

While aging is not optional, vaccination is. Make your choice. Airlines (and their unions) are not likely to create a carve-out for people who don't get the vaccines they need. DAL has that yellow-fever requirement, and I don't recall any waivers for conscientious objectors.

The only remotely similar scenario I can recall is when canada arbitrarily made non-felony DUIs acquired in other countries equivalent to a felony in CA, and barred entry. A number of working pilots were caught up in that, and at least a couple airlines worked their schedules around that (rather than fire them).

GeeWizDriver

We actually do have an exception in the policy manual vis-a-vis yellow fever. It is supposed to be required for my fleet but there are exceptions with a physician's note. I've never had that vaccine and it's never been an issue. Didn't actively avoid it. Just never had it done. Been to Brazil without it, too.

Obviously, Covid is a much higher visibility issue and the mileage may vary. I've also worked with FAs with the Canada DUI issue and they were accommodated.

But I can say that if a pilot at our company is fired for not taking a vaccine because of foreign requirements (especially while still under EUA) and over 65 pilots are still employed when they can't meet foreign requirements, that would be something of a legal conundrum.

rickair7777

There are almost always exceptions for medical reasons, and even foriegn countries typically offer such waivers (might need to get it in writing from one of THEIR docs though). As it should be, a small % of legitimately non-vaccinated people doesn't compromise herd immunity.


If the pilot had a medical (maybe even religious) reason, sure. But just refusing to do it? Apples to oranges, the old guys didn't choose to get old.

But this is all pretty hypothetical, no need to lose sleep over milk that hasn't even been spilled. I think the airlines really hope it will all blow over before they have to go there. Many foriegn governments probably feel the same, although I definitely get the sense that at least a few are already past V1 on requiring vaccination for entry. My guess is won't happen until later this year, when most people (or at least the ones likely to travel a lot) have had their vaccine.

mkitrn

Yeah the thing about employment cases (which that one would be a loser for the employee and likely fail to state a claim) is good luck arguing anti vaxer to the jury. But if you are unionized that would be you best option to get them to you line of thinking. However I don’t know if a large National union is going to go all anti vaxer but maybe who knows it’s a brave new world out there.

TransWorld

My dad used to say he didn’t like getting old, until he considered the alternative.