Credibility shattered
#1
Credibility shattered
At least in California.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...s-15819841.php
Good Preventive Medicine depends upon the credibility of the Public Health authority and the government itself. Even in liberal California the actions of these agencies have undermined that credibility. Instead of leaders and teachers these people have become - in the opinion of those they work for - little more than common scolds. This has been a huge failing for faith in government.
An excerpt:
The author brings out a good point. We are dealing with people. THEY are the focus. If it doesn’t work with people, it’s the wrong policy, regardless of what the model predicts.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...s-15819841.php
Good Preventive Medicine depends upon the credibility of the Public Health authority and the government itself. Even in liberal California the actions of these agencies have undermined that credibility. Instead of leaders and teachers these people have become - in the opinion of those they work for - little more than common scolds. This has been a huge failing for faith in government.
An excerpt:
How did it all go wrong for the state that issued the nation's first stay-at-home order in March and imposed some of the country's toughest restrictions? One possible explanation: The state and its counties have been too strict for their own good.
"A significant number of people have lost faith in the public health guidance and don’t know what to believe anymore," said Daniel Kotzin, a member of two advocacy groups hoping to reopen schools and businesses in San Francisco. "One part of it is when our leaders say one thing and do another, and another part is it’s just been so strict with no escape valve and people can’t do it anymore. For over nine months we’ve been locked up with constantly shifting goalposts."
The "escape valve" theory makes sense to Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert at UCSF.
"When the new lockdown came down, a friend of mine said we've basically been under lockdown in San Francisco since March," Gandhi said. "So I think the dance of opening and closing elsewhere was a necessary dance, since it allowed people economic relief and social relief in between waves. But in California, the system was quite strict and didn't allow that release. And it wasn't just the state; counties like San Francisco didn’t even allow what the state was allowing to reopen. San Francisco was even more strict."
Gandhi said that the state's messaging encouraging people to stay home for the holidays is not working in large part because many went the entire year without seeing family members."California is unique because this particular lockdown came off as arbitrary and not data driven," she said. "That’s why the opposition to it is not just from those who believe COVID is a hoax; there's also opposition from medical professionals, lawmakers, parents and those with nuanced thinking who believe it’s too restrictive, and didn’t incorporate the biology of virus. A good example was the playground closures, which ended up getting reversed because it was not nuanced and didn't take equity into account.
"Another example is outdoor dining. We all saw that viral video from LA. Cities and states have yet to provide data to restaurateurs that they had any contribution to driving spread if they did everything right. So I think the current opposition comes not because California is more rebellious or fatigued, but Californians have listened to the news, they have seen the data on the virus, they know that being outside is safer, they know the impact the lockdown will have on businesses that could die forever, and they just don’t buy it. It's fascinating; the opposition is quite widespread."
A new shutdown coupled with minimal compliance yields a worst of both worlds scenario: Thousands of lives lost and immeasurable economic damage.
Rory Cox leads the newly formed San Francisco Small Business Alliance and said several business owners are expressing newfound frustration over not being able to operate over the summer under the state's watch list framework, and therefore missing the window of economic relief Gandhi referenced.
"Experts have long said the winter will be the time of a surge no matter what we do, so the big argument for fitness centers, tattoo, massage parlors and others was, 'Hey we need to be able operate in the summer since we're probably going to be closed in the winter based on what the experts are predicting,'" he said. "They knew the winter was coming. They weren't listening and kept us locked down for so long for whatever reason, stopped kids from seeing their families over the summer and now look at where we are."
"A significant number of people have lost faith in the public health guidance and don’t know what to believe anymore," said Daniel Kotzin, a member of two advocacy groups hoping to reopen schools and businesses in San Francisco. "One part of it is when our leaders say one thing and do another, and another part is it’s just been so strict with no escape valve and people can’t do it anymore. For over nine months we’ve been locked up with constantly shifting goalposts."
The "escape valve" theory makes sense to Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert at UCSF.
"When the new lockdown came down, a friend of mine said we've basically been under lockdown in San Francisco since March," Gandhi said. "So I think the dance of opening and closing elsewhere was a necessary dance, since it allowed people economic relief and social relief in between waves. But in California, the system was quite strict and didn't allow that release. And it wasn't just the state; counties like San Francisco didn’t even allow what the state was allowing to reopen. San Francisco was even more strict."
Gandhi said that the state's messaging encouraging people to stay home for the holidays is not working in large part because many went the entire year without seeing family members."California is unique because this particular lockdown came off as arbitrary and not data driven," she said. "That’s why the opposition to it is not just from those who believe COVID is a hoax; there's also opposition from medical professionals, lawmakers, parents and those with nuanced thinking who believe it’s too restrictive, and didn’t incorporate the biology of virus. A good example was the playground closures, which ended up getting reversed because it was not nuanced and didn't take equity into account.
"Another example is outdoor dining. We all saw that viral video from LA. Cities and states have yet to provide data to restaurateurs that they had any contribution to driving spread if they did everything right. So I think the current opposition comes not because California is more rebellious or fatigued, but Californians have listened to the news, they have seen the data on the virus, they know that being outside is safer, they know the impact the lockdown will have on businesses that could die forever, and they just don’t buy it. It's fascinating; the opposition is quite widespread."
A new shutdown coupled with minimal compliance yields a worst of both worlds scenario: Thousands of lives lost and immeasurable economic damage.
Rory Cox leads the newly formed San Francisco Small Business Alliance and said several business owners are expressing newfound frustration over not being able to operate over the summer under the state's watch list framework, and therefore missing the window of economic relief Gandhi referenced.
"Experts have long said the winter will be the time of a surge no matter what we do, so the big argument for fitness centers, tattoo, massage parlors and others was, 'Hey we need to be able operate in the summer since we're probably going to be closed in the winter based on what the experts are predicting,'" he said. "They knew the winter was coming. They weren't listening and kept us locked down for so long for whatever reason, stopped kids from seeing their families over the summer and now look at where we are."
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 472
Failings also come about when the average Joe complies...... but then there exists no discernable outcome.
I.e.... they locked down and followed the rules..... yet it didnt do anything. I think that saps credibility the most.
I.e.... they locked down and followed the rules..... yet it didnt do anything. I think that saps credibility the most.
#3
https://covid19.ca.gov/stay-home-exc...sential-needs/
Of course harsh rules without actual leadership isn’t enough. Captain Bligh had that. All it got him was a mutiny.
Especially when the rules are for thee but not me.
https://calmatters.org/politics/2020...ndry-pandemic/
Credibility evaporates quickly in these conditions.
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
At least in California.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...s-15819841.php
Good Preventive Medicine depends upon the credibility of the Public Health authority and the government itself. Even in liberal California the actions of these agencies have undermined that credibility. Instead of leaders and teachers these people have become - in the opinion of those they work for - little more than common scolds. This has been a huge failing for faith in government.
An excerpt:
The author brings out a good point. We are dealing with people. THEY are the focus. If it doesn’t work with people, it’s the wrong policy, regardless of what the model predicts.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...s-15819841.php
Good Preventive Medicine depends upon the credibility of the Public Health authority and the government itself. Even in liberal California the actions of these agencies have undermined that credibility. Instead of leaders and teachers these people have become - in the opinion of those they work for - little more than common scolds. This has been a huge failing for faith in government.
An excerpt:
The author brings out a good point. We are dealing with people. THEY are the focus. If it doesn’t work with people, it’s the wrong policy, regardless of what the model predicts.
Having an article filled with the point of view of Covid hoaxers does not make their reasonings very credible. It’s just a laundry list of hoaxer talking points. The article says to trust the people instead of shutting things down, they’ve been doing that. That’s not a solution, that’s just a hoaxer talking point. At least shutdowns control the numbers. But of course hoaxers don’t believe there’s a problem here to begin with but they’re offering solutions, so it’s a big paradox.
“People haven’t seen their families in CA because of heavy restrictions” It’s laughable, CA has been open basically since the first lockdowns ended back in spring. If you’ve been to LA or Bay Area it almost looks pre pandemic, even right now. That’s part of the reason why cases have been high. It’s not because they closed outdoor dining, the cases already skyrocketed there even before outdoor dining was closed. There’s other reasons and predictably the Covid hoaxer article is not interested in them. They’re still stuck on closed gyms and bars. The lockdowns are there because people don’t listen, it’s not because there are lockdowns and so they’re not listening.
Last edited by Knobcrk1; 12-28-2020 at 11:06 AM.
#5
Having an article filled with the point of view of Covid hoaxers does not make their reasonings very credible. It’s just a laundry list of hoaxer talking points. The article says to trust the people instead of shutting things down, they’ve been doing that. That’s not a solution, that’s just a hoaxer talking point. At least shutdowns control the numbers. But of course hoaxers don’t believe there’s a problem here to begin with but they’re offering solutions, so it’s a big paradox.
“People haven’t seen their families in CA because of heavy restrictions” It’s laughable, CA has been open basically since the first lockdowns ended back in spring. If you’ve been to LA or Bay Area it almost looks pre pandemic, even right now. That’s part of the reason why cases have been high. It’s not because they closed outdoor dining, the cases already skyrocketed there even before outdoor dining was closed. There’s other reasons and predictably the Covid hoaxer article is not interested in them. They’re still stuck on closed gyms and bars. The lockdowns are there because people don’t listen, it’s not because there are lockdowns and so they’re not listening.
“People haven’t seen their families in CA because of heavy restrictions” It’s laughable, CA has been open basically since the first lockdowns ended back in spring. If you’ve been to LA or Bay Area it almost looks pre pandemic, even right now. That’s part of the reason why cases have been high. It’s not because they closed outdoor dining, the cases already skyrocketed there even before outdoor dining was closed. There’s other reasons and predictably the Covid hoaxer article is not interested in them. They’re still stuck on closed gyms and bars. The lockdowns are there because people don’t listen, it’s not because there are lockdowns and so they’re not listening.
the POINT is they are not working (or even being followed) because those instituting them have lost credibility.
#6
California population following guidelines to restrict COVID?
If you live or have lived in California, you know damn well a majority of that state's population is not going to adhere to any guidelines, COIVD or otherwise. The COVID related data for that state just reflects this fact. Not surprising at all.
If you live or have lived in California, you know damn well a majority of that state's population is not going to adhere to any guidelines, COIVD or otherwise. The COVID related data for that state just reflects this fact. Not surprising at all.
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
It’s not because of credibility, again that’s the hoaxer argument. They’re not going out because they saw a politician go out. Dr Fauci has been in his basement to set a good example, has that worked? The average people know they’ll get the virus in mass gatherings, they’re not denying it, but they don’t care. That’s where they need a bit of roadblocks. What about the healthcare workers? Do you just pretend there isn’t a crisis?
#8
Human behavior matters, and there's absolutely a psychology aspect to human behavior. Messaging to the public matters when your good-intentioned orders under the auspices of helping the public also harms them, and YES, what our 'betters' do vs. tell us we should do does in fact have an impact on how their requests, pleas, and orders are viewed and complied with...especially after 3/4 of a year.
"California is unique because this particular lockdown came off as arbitrary and not data driven," she said. "That’s why the opposition to it is not just from those who believe COVID is a hoax; there's also opposition from medical professionals, lawmakers, parents and those with nuanced thinking who believe it’s too restrictive, and didn’t incorporate the biology of virus. A good example was the playground closures, which ended up getting reversed because it was not nuanced and didn't take equity into account.
"Another example is outdoor dining. We all saw that viral video from LA. Cities and states have yet to provide data to restaurateurs that they had any contribution to driving spread if they did everything right. So I think the current opposition comes not because California is more rebellious or fatigued, but Californians have listened to the news, they have seen the data on the virus, they know that being outside is safer, they know impact the lockdown will have on businesses that could die forever, and they just don’t buy it. It's fascinating; the opposition is quite widespread."
"Another example is outdoor dining. We all saw that viral video from LA. Cities and states have yet to provide data to restaurateurs that they had any contribution to driving spread if they did everything right. So I think the current opposition comes not because California is more rebellious or fatigued, but Californians have listened to the news, they have seen the data on the virus, they know that being outside is safer, they know impact the lockdown will have on businesses that could die forever, and they just don’t buy it. It's fascinating; the opposition is quite widespread."
Besides, the San Francisco Chronicle isn't exactly a paragon of anti-science, anti-vax, "hoaxer" perspective.
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
California population following guidelines to restrict COVID?
If you live or have lived in California, you know damn well a majority of that state's population is not going to adhere to any guidelines, COIVD or otherwise. The COVID related data for that state just reflects this fact. Not surprising at all.
If you live or have lived in California, you know damn well a majority of that state's population is not going to adhere to any guidelines, COIVD or otherwise. The COVID related data for that state just reflects this fact. Not surprising at all.
#10
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
It’s not because of credibility, again that’s the hoaxer argument. They’re not going out because they saw a politician go out. Dr Fauci has been in his basement to set a good example, has that worked? The average people know they’ll get the virus in mass gatherings, they’re not denying it, but they don’t care. That’s where they need a bit of roadblocks. What about the healthcare workers? Do you just pretend there isn’t a crisis?
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