Natural Immunity vs Vaccine:
08-31-2021, 08:43 AM
#141
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,608
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
If airline travel had a 99% survival rate we would lose around 80 airliners a day globally. Would we consider that acceptable?
Results
A total of 7,449 patients were hospitalized with CAP during the study period. Improvement was documented in 5,732 patients (77%), failure was documented in 1,458 patients (20%), and nonresolving CAP was documented in 259 patients (3%). Mortality at 30 days was 6% for those who improved, 34% for those who failed, and 34% for those with nonresolving pneumonia. Mortality at 1 year was 23%, 52%, and 51%, respectively.Anyone out there believing they are going to live forever is doomed to be disappointed.
08-31-2021, 08:44 AM
#142
Gets Weekdays Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Economy Minus
Posts: 1,053
Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
I'm not an anti-vaxxer. My point is, I can easily point to statistics of vaccinated people dying from Covid. If one writes an article about a vaccinated person dying from Covid, does that mean that the vaccine doesn't work? Using your logic of a single case study, one would have to come to the same conclusion. When you make a ridiculous argument, be prepared to be called out on it.
08-31-2021, 08:55 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
If airline travel had a 99% survival rate we would lose around 80 airliners a day globally. Would we consider that acceptable?
God I hope you are a Troll. If not....Really? That's what you got?
08-31-2021, 09:23 AM
#144
Always Working
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
You speak of misinformation, yet fail to acknowledge that Covid already has a 99% survival rate.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality...d?country=~USA
08-31-2021, 10:26 AM
#145
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,608
Originally Posted by Tfork
It doesn't, no matter how much you say it. Before we go down the path of what the survival rate of COVID is, why don't you explain precisely what you mean...maybe you want to read this first:
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality...d?country=~USA
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality...d?country=~USA
And conversely, the oldest and the sickest are at far HIGHER than 1% risk of dying if they get COVID - or pretty much anything else.
Old people and people with serious underlying health conditions can be killed by a simple cold. The AVERAGE American is at less than 1% risk of dying if they have a DIAGNOSED COVID case, and many - potentially even most COVID cases- are either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic and not diagnosed at all. That further lowers the infection fatality rate:
The issue with COVID is NOT that COVID is terribly lethal compared to many other diseases, it is that it is more WIDESPREAD than many others diseases.
if you could somehow have your option between having a standard community acquired pneumonia which prior to COVID was the leading cause of infectious disease death in the US or having COVID, COVID is far and away the safer bet.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1806/4049508
it’s just that community acquired pneumonia only hits about 10 million people a year while COVID is probably 7 to 10 times that this last year.
Incidence — CAP is one of the most common and morbid conditions encountered in clinical practice [1-3]. In the United States, CAP accounts for over 4.5 million outpatient and emergency room visits annually, corresponding to approximately 0.4 percent of all encounters [4]. CAP is the second most common cause of hospitalization and the most common infectious cause of death [5,6]. Approximately 650 adults are hospitalized with CAP every year per 100,000 population in the United States, corresponding to 1.5 million unique CAP hospitalizations each year [7]. Nearly 9 percent of patients hospitalized with CAP will be rehospitalized due to a new episode of CAP during the same year.
And while we have immunizations that will greatly reduce the risk of CAP. (Ie, pneumovax and similar) the overwhelming majority of those who would benefit from it have never gotten it.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...49379718300655
08-31-2021, 10:27 AM
#146
Always Working
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 300
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...lication-68505
When there is a credible, peer-reviewed study which proves Ivermectin is helpful for COVID, then the FDA may approve it's use. In fact, they can only approve it once that happens. All the conspiracy theories about how there's no money in Ivermectin and that's why all these agencies are against the use of Ivermectin ignores this reality.
When there is a credible, peer-reviewed study which proves Ivermectin is helpful for COVID, then the FDA may approve it's use. In fact, they can only approve it once that happens. All the conspiracy theories about how there's no money in Ivermectin and that's why all these agencies are against the use of Ivermectin ignores this reality.
08-31-2021, 10:38 AM
#147
Always Working
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by Excargodog
It does…unless you are real old or have serious underlying health conditions. Your own reference above demonstrates that:
Old people and people with serious underlying health conditions can be killed by a simple cold. The AVERAGE American is at less than 1% risk of dying if they have a DIAGNOSED COVID case, and many - potentially even most COVID cases- are either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic and not diagnosed at all. That further lowers the infection fatality rate:
The issue with COVID is NOT that COVID is terribly lethal compared to many other diseases, it is that it is more WIDESPREAD than many others diseases.
if you could somehow have your option between having a standard community acquired pneumonia which prior to COVID was the leading cause of infectious disease death in the US or having COVID, COVID is far and away the safer bet.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1806/4049508
it’s just that community acquired pneumonia only hits about 10 million people a year while COVID is probably 7 to 10 times that this last year.
And while we have immunizations that will greatly reduce the risk of CAP. (Ie, pneumovax and similar) the overwhelming majority of those who would benefit from it have never gotten it.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...49379718300655
Old people and people with serious underlying health conditions can be killed by a simple cold. The AVERAGE American is at less than 1% risk of dying if they have a DIAGNOSED COVID case, and many - potentially even most COVID cases- are either asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic and not diagnosed at all. That further lowers the infection fatality rate:
The issue with COVID is NOT that COVID is terribly lethal compared to many other diseases, it is that it is more WIDESPREAD than many others diseases.
if you could somehow have your option between having a standard community acquired pneumonia which prior to COVID was the leading cause of infectious disease death in the US or having COVID, COVID is far and away the safer bet.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1806/4049508
it’s just that community acquired pneumonia only hits about 10 million people a year while COVID is probably 7 to 10 times that this last year.
And while we have immunizations that will greatly reduce the risk of CAP. (Ie, pneumovax and similar) the overwhelming majority of those who would benefit from it have never gotten it.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...49379718300655
I would post the relevant chart if I knew how. The chart that shows the CFR was as high as 6% and trailed off over time to slightly less than 2%. They explain on the website that CFR is still not an accurate way to determine ones risk of dying from COVID. They also explain why:
"The key point is that the “case fatality rate”, the most commonly discussed measure of the risk of dying, is not the answer to the question, for two reasons. One, it relies on the number of confirmed cases, and many cases are not confirmed; and two, it relies on the total number of deaths, and with COVID-19, some people who are sick and will die soon have not yet died. These two facts mean that it is extremely difficult to make accurate estimates of the true risk of death."
It's right there, clear as day. Now please don't tell me it must be a liberal influenced article or MSM. Seems that's always the response.
08-31-2021, 11:09 AM
#148
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,703
Originally Posted by Tfork
I would post the relevant chart if I knew how. The chart that shows the CFR was as high as 6% and trailed off over time to slightly less than 2%. They explain on the website that CFR is still not an accurate way to determine ones risk of dying from COVID. They also explain why:
"The key point is that the “case fatality rate”, the most commonly discussed measure of the risk of dying, is not the answer to the question, for two reasons. One, it relies on the number of confirmed cases, and many cases are not confirmed; and two, it relies on the total number of deaths, and with COVID-19, some people who are sick and will die soon have not yet died. These two facts mean that it is extremely difficult to make accurate estimates of the true risk of death."
It's right there, clear as day. Now please don't tell me it must be a liberal influenced article or MSM. Seems that's always the response.
"The key point is that the “case fatality rate”, the most commonly discussed measure of the risk of dying, is not the answer to the question, for two reasons. One, it relies on the number of confirmed cases, and many cases are not confirmed; and two, it relies on the total number of deaths, and with COVID-19, some people who are sick and will die soon have not yet died. These two facts mean that it is extremely difficult to make accurate estimates of the true risk of death."
It's right there, clear as day. Now please don't tell me it must be a liberal influenced article or MSM. Seems that's always the response.
Except the number of people who have previously contracted the virus has been estimated to be as much as 10 times the number of “confirmed” infections. Meaning the Infection Fatality Rate is likely much LOWER than people like you believe it to be.
08-31-2021, 11:15 AM
#149
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,535
The current CDC estimate is 4.2 actual infections for every confirmed positive reported infection.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...es/burden.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...es/burden.html
08-31-2021, 01:21 PM
#150
Always Working
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
The current CDC estimate is 4.2 actual infections for every confirmed positive reported infection.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...es/burden.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...es/burden.html
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
Except the number of people who have previously contracted the virus has been estimated to be as much as 10 times the number of “confirmed” infections. Meaning the Infection Fatality Rate is likely much LOWER than people like you believe it to be.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
