International up 22.1%
09-09-2017 | 09:54 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 385
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From: 5-9 block, kill removing
I also don't mostly. There's no magic way to exceed peers by a significant amount, for an extended period of time. You could say that future pay raises would absorb the exchange, or you could say that future pay raises may not be as big because of profit sharing. Management really doesn't care what label is on the value they transfer to us. It's all eventually wrapped up in pilot costs.
Which leads us to a second dimension often overlooked. What about the down years without profit? Now the way I've described above is of significant more value.
If you subscribe to managements view that we'll be profitable forever, why worry about any of it? If you think we might still be subject to the rise and fall of normal business cycles, exchanging the first level of PS for pay turns out to be way better.
Which leads us to a second dimension often overlooked. What about the down years without profit? Now the way I've described above is of significant more value.
If you subscribe to managements view that we'll be profitable forever, why worry about any of it? If you think we might still be subject to the rise and fall of normal business cycles, exchanging the first level of PS for pay turns out to be way better.
It made no sense. It was pure capitulation.
09-10-2017 | 03:00 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 534
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09-10-2017 | 05:44 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
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From: A350 Both
notEnuf, this is a good explanation. But there is a way to transfer even more value to the pilot group. The explanation is connected to my previous explanation to Bob. Here's how...
Take the initial portion of Profit Sharing value, the amount paid out at the 10% level, and convert it to a pay raise. That value then compounds every year we get a pay raise, increasing in value. Retain the amount above the 10% payout to participate in your description above. Do the math. This is a more valuable approach.
Take the initial portion of Profit Sharing value, the amount paid out at the 10% level, and convert it to a pay raise. That value then compounds every year we get a pay raise, increasing in value. Retain the amount above the 10% payout to participate in your description above. Do the math. This is a more valuable approach.
09-10-2017 | 07:49 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 5
From: retired 767(dl)
You are right. The math says exactly what you are talking about. But, no. The company wants to insist on JVs and revenue sharing, and this is the way to get our share of that without doing any 'work' ourselves. I wish we could figure out some way to continue to get PS as a retirement vehicle.
09-10-2017 | 07:55 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,248
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From: 767A (Ret)
09-10-2017 | 05:47 PM
#36
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 217
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I don't remember the exact numbers of C2012, but we exchanged something like $40 million for an extra 2% pay increase. How much is 2% of a $3.5 Billion contract worth now? $70 million? How's that extra $30 million working out for you?
09-10-2017 | 07:04 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,339
Likes: 829
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
We are still below the purchasing power, retirement value and medical coverage prior to bankruptcy. If/when we return that value we can talk about the value of PS and whether we want to forever relinquish that compensation.
09-10-2017 | 08:58 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
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From: Power top
09-21-2017 | 06:28 PM
#39
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Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,339
Likes: 829
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
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