Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 2505929)

Page 1 of this thread:

Good, the 321 is superior to anything boeing makes in that category. Maybe Southwest will buy some more of those ****ty 737s.

And...
Well, considering they only sold about 1000 757s and 3700 A321s and the Neo is just getting started. .. I think you can say that the 757 doesn't hold a candle to the 321s where it matters.

And:

headrest!!
The A321 can be stretched to cover the MOM segment, with the engine that Delta is now the MRO for. Neither a reissued 757 or 737 can meet takeoff certification requirements, without sacrificing fuel economy in this market, thus requiring a entirely new designed 797. I don't know if it makes financial sense for Delta to buy the 797, when these 100 options can be converted to an A321neo stretch with the volume discount. Obviously, more than just 75 Cseries are coming as well, so it's going to be all Airbii for a while.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2505931)

The first quote is about what is currently being produced.

The second is not about performance but about units sold (poking fun at sailingfun in his incessant doubling down actually).

Do you agree?

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2505898)

Nearly 4x the sales sailing. Money talks doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Planetrain (Post 2503729)

Side note: Did you notice the blurb in there on Polish Wizzair? Wow, thats a huge order! They werent even flying 15 years ago, and here they are with 88 jets and 280+ on order. Their A321NEOs have more seats than our 757-300 of which they have 184 on order. Thats a big threat to the European local theater. How long till they try and cross the Atlantic?

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 2505949)

Your take on it. As someone who has flown that airplane to the limit of it's capability, all over the world, over 15 years, no, I don't agree. Tired of hearing how the 321 just outpaces the 75. When pushed, the design limitations of the 321 are glaring and obvious. It simply will never be its equal. Everything else is just a compromise. But isn't that where we are now? Ramp staffing, MX, Technology, it's all algorithms and customer feedback to find that perfect dot. The days of carrying fat and gas are over. The 757 represents the pinnacle of that bygone philosophy. Overbuilt to take whatever the world throws at it. Pretty nice if you are a pilot.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2505951)

I'll quote this again. Just for fun.

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 2505961)

When you are flying that dot on the flight director on the 321, you are actualizing some accountants wet dream. Climbing over a line of weather, landing on a short runway max brakes, high and hot performance, ETOPS redundancy, kicking over a huge rudder in a crosswind, low speed stability, over-winged at altitude when you hit mountain wave... that's my idea of a good time.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2505983)

In a old jet. :D

That's narrow.

And no speed tapes to show you if you're over winged.:D

And just 1 JS.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2505954)

No one here disagrees about the performance of the 321 compared to the 757. It's just the closest thing produced today comparable to the 757. With the further enhancements it's gotten closer and closer, thus the massive sales numbers.

I loved flying the 757 and hate so much that Boeing shut down that line, but for the reasons that you stated, it's not a thing anymore.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2507651)

Pratt has a new GTF engine coming out in 2020, and if Airbus does the work, with a new wing, and new materials in key areas, they could exceed the 757. The technology is mature enough to get there, where it wasn't just a few years ago, and by all indication, Airbus is already working on doing that.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2507668)

The 322 was in one of our presentations or newsletter.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/nw42.jpg

Btw, the current 321 breaking is awesome as is before you even consider brake fans

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2507668)

The 322 was in one of our presentations or newsletter.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/nw42.jpg

Btw, the current 321 breaking is awesome as is before you even consider brake fans

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2507675)

Door 2 needs to be moved forward a few feet... and you're exactly right about 321 braking. She gets it done always with plenty of room near max landing weight in DCA.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2507686)

The issue with a single axle truck from a performance standpoint has nothing to do with landing. It’s a abort at V1 where it comes into play limiting takeoff performance.
Airlines that don’t need that performance much prefer a single axle truck for lower maintenance expenses. The other issue is load bearing. Due to the footprint AA’s 321’s are limited to 15 knots taxi speed at LGA. They were damaging the taxiways in turns.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2507670)

This would require very little investment by Airbus to develop.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2507686)

The issue with a single axle truck from a performance standpoint has nothing to do with landing. It’s a abort at V1 where it comes into play limiting takeoff performance.
Airlines that don’t need that performance much prefer a single axle truck for lower maintenance expenses. The other issue is load bearing. Due to the footprint AA’s 321’s are limited to 15 knots taxi speed at LGA. They were damaging the taxiways in turns.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2507715)

You speak so much about which you know so little...

The brakes on the 321 GO. Plain and simple.

You shouldn’t be doing more than 15 knots in the turns at LGA anyways... esp if WN is behind you. �� It’s not comfortable for the pax, seriously. 10 knots for 90 degree turns is supposed to be the speed through a 90 in all aircraft models at Delta.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2507776)

A Delta 757 departing SNA aborted after rotation past V1 and stopped on the runway. Not bad for 5700 feet!

Originally Posted by RJDio (Post 2507821)

Unless the wings fell off and it became a projectile, why would anyone in they're right mind abort past v1 in Orange County? Am I missing the facetiousness in this back and forth?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2507776)

They are limited to 15 knots on straight always and slower in turns. I believe it’s 5 knots. What does seem strange is I don’t believe Delta has the same restrictions.
A dual truck aircraft can have amazing abort performance. A Delta 757 departing SNA aborted after rotation past V1 and stopped on the runway. Not bad for 5700 feet!

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2507846)

The 321 has quite amazing stopping performance for an aircraft its size with single truck was the point, though... you're hanging in the straps with MED auto brakes engaged on landing, and that is a LOT less than max.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2507850)

The goal post moved again. Now you have to compare aborts after V1 to a stop... evidently tire damage not a factor.

Originally Posted by Bainite (Post 2507886)

Well Jet Blue landed at SMF and stopped 2000' past the touchdown point. Airbus wins! Accident: Jetblue A320 at Sacramento on Aug 26th 2010, brake fire on landing

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2507825)

They hit a large flock of seagulls. One engine quit and the other engine was destroyed and would not have made it around the pattern. The nose wheel was off the ground when tha abort was initiated.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2507651)

Pratt has a new GTF engine coming out in 2020, and if Airbus does the work, with a new wing, and new materials in key areas, they could exceed the 757. The technology is mature enough to get there, where it wasn't just a few years ago, and by all indication, Airbus is already working on doing that.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2507944)

So assuming the new engine is ready on time (and doesn't have big time issues) then they can redo the wing in theory. That sounds like it will take a while as I doubt they have much interest in doing a Newer NEO already.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2507892)

That wasn't an abort so it doesn't count. :D

#sailingfunthoughts

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2508075)

I doubt it, the new stuff is not really new, it just refined GTF engines. Pratt also has an Ultra High Bypass GTF coming out for larger planes. Maybe we even see a shorter A330 with that engine.



The MoM jet is so hard to engineer, either you having braking issues as sailing is "describing", or the airplane can't get to V2 on a single engine.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2508099)

What kind of crashes count to show better performance?

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2508129)

The first thing they need to figure out is how not to call it the Mom jet.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2508183)

So instead of the MAX, when the Mom gets stretched and warmed over 1000 times 60 years from now, will they call it the FAT? "Introducing the MOM SOOOOO FAT..."

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 2508129)

The first thing they need to figure out is how not to call it the Mom jet.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2508252)

the Semi Large Upgraded Transport from France

Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2508200)

Either that, orrrr...the grand-mom jet.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2508258)

The A322 could be the A757BETTER.

sailingfun? :D

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2508460)

Dual trucks, 40,000 lb GTF and perhaps as the icing on the cake incorporate the Bombardier cockpit and could be amazing! Like Boeing however I doubt they would update the cockpit. They will keep it common.
If in fact however Boeing comes out with a clean sheet design for the 797 I suspect Airbus has to counter with more than a pumped up A320.

Originally Posted by Danger Close (Post 2508492)

The real question is will I it have a sidestick or yoke ?

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2508498)

...or a 2L door, so we don't board close to 200 pax through the 1L door every single time!

I love the bus, but after 13 years on the 757, it is mighty frustrating to actually SEE a 2L door on the 321...but we can't use it. Makes life a lot easier for lots of different folks