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Old 07-07-2018, 03:47 PM   #1  
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Default 30 in 168 reserve question

I'm hoping someone here can help me get a better understanding of the application of the 30 in 168 rule based on the following example of X days and Reserve days. An * indicates a Golden X day.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
* X X R R R X R R R R *

Can I be assigned a 4-day trip on the 8th since I've had a 30-hour rest in the 168 hour lookback despite the fact that the trip would put me over 168 hours without a 30-hour rest during the rotation?

Additionally, if they don't assign me anything by hour 138 (which would be at 6pm on the 9th) then they will have to give me a 30 hour rest?
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:56 PM   #2  
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I'm hoping someone here can help me get a better understanding of the application of the 30 in 168 rule based on the following example of X days and Reserve days. An * indicates a Golden X day.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
* X X R R R X R R R R *

Can I be assigned a 4-day trip on the 8th since I've had a 30-hour rest in the 168 hour lookback despite the fact that the trip would put me over 168 hours without a 30-hour rest during the rotation?

Additionally, if they don't assign me anything by hour 138 (which would be at 6pm on the 9th) then they will have to give me a 30 hour rest?
If they did not release you early on the 6th into rest or delay the start of your LC on the 8th then you did not get a 30 hr break. They could assign you a 4 day trip that starts on the 8th as long as it has a 30 hour layover on the 9th or 10th.

To answer your bolded part you are legal to start a trip that does not have a 30 hour layover but you would be illegal to start your FDP on the 10th.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:01 PM   #3  
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If they did not release you early on the 6th into rest or delay the start of your LC on the 8th then you did not get a 30 hr break. They could assign you a 4 day trip that starts on the 8th as long as it has a 30 hour layover on the 9th or 10th.

To answer your bolded part you are legal to start a trip that does not have a 30 hour layover but you would be illegal to start your FDP on the 10th.
Ok but I thought the 30 in 168 requirement was only a lookback prior to the start of an FDP and had no prospective "look-forward"?
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:32 PM   #4  
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Ok but I thought the 30 in 168 requirement was only a lookback prior to the start of an FDP and had no prospective "look-forward"?
There is no look forward.

Before you begin an FDP you have to have 30hrs’ rest within the last 168 hrs.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:11 PM   #5  
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There is no look forward.

Before you begin an FDP you have to have 30hrs’ rest within the last 168 hrs.
So then I actually could be assigned a 4-day trip on the 8th as I first posted?

You guys have got me all confused now.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:38 PM   #6  
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So then I actually could be assigned a 4-day trip on the 8th as I first posted?



You guys have got me all confused now.

Yes...IF each FDP in the 4 day trip satisfies the 30 hour in 168 look-back prior to its start. As the poster above mentions, they could end your reserve early enough on the 6th to give you 30 hours off (inclusive of the X day on the 7th) which would reset the look-back, so to speak, for almost any trip on the 8th.

Always remember, any required rest must be assigned in advance. If you go into your X day on the 7th without your 30 hour rest assigned, they can give you a shorter trip trip starting on the 8th that would still keep you legal.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:16 PM   #7  
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The question comes down to was there any way you had 30 hours around your X day on the 7th. If you flew a trip that ended on the 6th and were free of reserve at 6 pm or earlier, then you would have had 30 hours. Either that had to have happened or you had to be notified (and should show on icrew) that you were released from LC/SC on the 6th no later than 6 pm. Or prior to finishing on the 6th you would have needed to have been notified of a 6 hour delay to the start of your reserve on the 8th.

If none of that happened then you will have a FAR 117 violation on the 10th unless they find another way tomorrow or the next day to give you 30 hours somewhere.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:21 PM   #8  
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The question comes down to was there any way you had 30 hours around your X day on the 7th. If you flew a trip that ended on the 6th and were free of reserve at 6 pm or earlier, then you would have had 30 hours. Either that had to have happened or you had to be notified (and should show on icrew) that you were released from LC/SC on the 6th no later than 6 pm. Or prior to finishing on the 6th you would have needed to have been notified of a 6 hour delay to the start of your reserve on the 8th.

If none of that happened then you will have a FAR 117 violation on the 10th unless they find another way tomorrow or the next day to give you 30 hours somewhere.
For the purpose of the example we are assuming that no 30 hour rest has been received prior to beginning reserve long call at 12:00am on the 8th.

Does the 30 hour lookback only happen prior to starting the first FDP of a rotation? Or does it apply to EVERY FDP for a given rotation?
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:36 PM   #9  
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For the purpose of the example we are assuming that no 30 hour rest has been received prior to beginning reserve long call at 12:00am on the 8th.

Does the 30 hour lookback only happen prior to starting the first FDP of a rotation? Or does it apply to EVERY FDP for a given rotation?
Every FDP or RAP. Long call is neither.

Rotations have nothing to do with this. It’s all about having 30/168 before beginning a FDP/RAP.

(RAP = shortcall.)

I would strongly suggest having the “ALPA Guide to FAR 117” on your iPad.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:39 PM   #10  
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Every FDP or RAP. Long call is neither.

Rotations have nothing to do with this. It’s all about having 30/168 before beginning a FDP/RAP.

(RAP = shortcall.)

I would strongly suggest having the “ALPA Guide to FAR 117” on your iPad.
I do have it and read it again today before posting. I occasionally like to create scenarios in my head for “fun” and sometimes I run them by the peanut gallery.
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