Ed’s Interview With Maria
10-08-2018, 06:05 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I would bid down to copilot. Seems weird to pay copilots more than Captains! We would also be one of the first to decouple revenue generation from pay. Your assertion it would change seniority integration would only be true if our new rates matched narrowbody rates at other airlines.
Did you watch the recent video by ED where he discussed fleet plans and the ATC system. He repeatedly said upsizing the fleet is the only way to sustain growth. That process is underway right now. Shame to give up all those free unnegotiated pay raises!
Did you watch the recent video by ED where he discussed fleet plans and the ATC system. He repeatedly said upsizing the fleet is the only way to sustain growth. That process is underway right now. Shame to give up all those free unnegotiated pay raises!
10-08-2018, 06:07 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by Puddyhog
Can you guys clarify longevity pay? Is it the same as UPS - no regard to equipment, just years and seat? Does it still cap at 12 years? Just trying to think through the pros and cons...
Can anyone tell us why on earth the current scales stop at 12 years?
10-08-2018, 06:10 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by gloopy
How?
If a narrow body LCC were to pillage our seniority list by scoring a full relative windfall because "what difference does it make the rates are all the same" that would cost our pilots seniority numbers compared to a limited/slotted/pull-n-plug/etc narrow body only relative integration.
I'm just not seeing the panacea with LBP except for the company with less training churn which means less pilots, less SLI's, etc. Throw in the possibility of even a fraction of a percent worse seniority integration and why would we even consider it? What's the big gain anyway? Everyone gets 777 pay overnight? Highly unlikely. LBP won't magically generate more money for us to spread around; odds are overwhelming that top rates will be lowered to bring lower rates up. So what's the big draw for the entire group as a whole?
If a narrow body LCC were to pillage our seniority list by scoring a full relative windfall because "what difference does it make the rates are all the same" that would cost our pilots seniority numbers compared to a limited/slotted/pull-n-plug/etc narrow body only relative integration.
I'm just not seeing the panacea with LBP except for the company with less training churn which means less pilots, less SLI's, etc. Throw in the possibility of even a fraction of a percent worse seniority integration and why would we even consider it? What's the big gain anyway? Everyone gets 777 pay overnight? Highly unlikely. LBP won't magically generate more money for us to spread around; odds are overwhelming that top rates will be lowered to bring lower rates up. So what's the big draw for the entire group as a whole?
You're right. It will never work. Let's do the same old thing we have always done. It works for a few., so at least we have that.
10-08-2018, 07:16 AM
#24
Back on Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: A330 FO
Posts: 671
Originally Posted by JamesBond
Can anyone tell us why on earth the current scales stop at 12 years?
This seems like it is more favorable to the company in terms of projecting cost and limiting pay growth, but it also is a negotiating point for both sides for costing purposes.
10-08-2018, 07:46 AM
#25
alto
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by JamesBond
I would run a 42 year pay scale, and for sailingfun since he seems cluedo on the issue, Captains make more than FOs.
Can anyone tell us why on earth the current scales stop at 12 years?
Can anyone tell us why on earth the current scales stop at 12 years?
10-08-2018, 08:05 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by pileit
I used to work at an airline that had a 15 years scale. It takes 3 years longer to get to top pay, is that better? Also, our current scale is too steep, I agree. 2nd year Captain only makes marginally less than a 12 year Captain. I'm all for reducing the 2nd, 3rd & 4th year Captain pay to increase the longevity pay going forward. Currently after year 2 the annual increases are comical, something like $2-3/hr. I doubt we'd get the current scale extended AND annual raises out to the previously mentioned 42 year mark without trading something for it. That would be a MASSIVE amount of $. Of course if someone knows a way to obtain both the current scale AND increase longevity...I'm even happier with that.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
10-08-2018, 08:09 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by JamesBond
Trying to explain this while you continue to mesh in the above highlighted sentence is impossible.
You're right. It will never work. Let's do the same old thing we have always done. It works for a few., so at least we have that.
You're right. It will never work. Let's do the same old thing we have always done. It works for a few., so at least we have that.
We're simply not going to have this discussion on a theoretical basis with no known outcome until its already committed to. Hey I have a great idea! But first let's reach V1 with it and then we'll see the details!
10-08-2018, 08:49 AM
#28
alto
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: M88
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by TED74
Over the course of a full career, one does better to bring earnings forward. In the absence of any retirement benefit being calculated on final average earnings, I'd even take an inversion to the pay tables if I were getting hired today.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
10-08-2018, 09:20 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,027
The more time we spend manipulating the structure of the contract, the more time it will take and the more potential for language failures. That lengthens the timeline for what gains? We repeat this every contract and try to evaluate language at the vote or after. Known quantities are valuable and defendable.
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