Ed’s Interview With Maria
10-08-2018 | 06:05 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
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From: A350 Both
I would bid down to copilot. Seems weird to pay copilots more than Captains! We would also be one of the first to decouple revenue generation from pay. Your assertion it would change seniority integration would only be true if our new rates matched narrowbody rates at other airlines.
Did you watch the recent video by ED where he discussed fleet plans and the ATC system. He repeatedly said upsizing the fleet is the only way to sustain growth. That process is underway right now. Shame to give up all those free unnegotiated pay raises!
Did you watch the recent video by ED where he discussed fleet plans and the ATC system. He repeatedly said upsizing the fleet is the only way to sustain growth. That process is underway right now. Shame to give up all those free unnegotiated pay raises!
10-08-2018 | 06:07 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
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From: A350 Both
Can anyone tell us why on earth the current scales stop at 12 years?
10-08-2018 | 06:10 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
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From: A350 Both
How?
If a narrow body LCC were to pillage our seniority list by scoring a full relative windfall because "what difference does it make the rates are all the same" that would cost our pilots seniority numbers compared to a limited/slotted/pull-n-plug/etc narrow body only relative integration.
I'm just not seeing the panacea with LBP except for the company with less training churn which means less pilots, less SLI's, etc. Throw in the possibility of even a fraction of a percent worse seniority integration and why would we even consider it? What's the big gain anyway? Everyone gets 777 pay overnight? Highly unlikely. LBP won't magically generate more money for us to spread around; odds are overwhelming that top rates will be lowered to bring lower rates up. So what's the big draw for the entire group as a whole?
If a narrow body LCC were to pillage our seniority list by scoring a full relative windfall because "what difference does it make the rates are all the same" that would cost our pilots seniority numbers compared to a limited/slotted/pull-n-plug/etc narrow body only relative integration.
I'm just not seeing the panacea with LBP except for the company with less training churn which means less pilots, less SLI's, etc. Throw in the possibility of even a fraction of a percent worse seniority integration and why would we even consider it? What's the big gain anyway? Everyone gets 777 pay overnight? Highly unlikely. LBP won't magically generate more money for us to spread around; odds are overwhelming that top rates will be lowered to bring lower rates up. So what's the big draw for the entire group as a whole?
You're right. It will never work. Let's do the same old thing we have always done. It works for a few., so at least we have that.
10-08-2018 | 07:16 AM
#24
Back on Reserve
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 842
Likes: 23
Good question. Is this something historical? Did the company or ALPA (of old) choose this? Was it a compromise?
This seems like it is more favorable to the company in terms of projecting cost and limiting pay growth, but it also is a negotiating point for both sides for costing purposes.
This seems like it is more favorable to the company in terms of projecting cost and limiting pay growth, but it also is a negotiating point for both sides for costing purposes.
10-08-2018 | 07:46 AM
#25
alto
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: M88
I used to work at an airline that had a 15 years scale. It takes 3 years longer to get to top pay, is that better? Also, our current scale is too steep, I agree. 2nd year Captain only makes marginally less than a 12 year Captain. I'm all for reducing the 2nd, 3rd & 4th year Captain pay to increase the longevity pay going forward. Currently after year 2 the annual increases are comical, something like $2-3/hr. I doubt we'd get the current scale extended AND annual raises out to the previously mentioned 42 year mark without trading something for it. That would be a MASSIVE amount of $. Of course if someone knows a way to obtain both the current scale AND increase longevity...I'm even happier with that.
10-08-2018 | 08:05 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
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Likes: 92
I used to work at an airline that had a 15 years scale. It takes 3 years longer to get to top pay, is that better? Also, our current scale is too steep, I agree. 2nd year Captain only makes marginally less than a 12 year Captain. I'm all for reducing the 2nd, 3rd & 4th year Captain pay to increase the longevity pay going forward. Currently after year 2 the annual increases are comical, something like $2-3/hr. I doubt we'd get the current scale extended AND annual raises out to the previously mentioned 42 year mark without trading something for it. That would be a MASSIVE amount of $. Of course if someone knows a way to obtain both the current scale AND increase longevity...I'm even happier with that.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
10-08-2018 | 08:09 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 169
From: window seat
We're simply not going to have this discussion on a theoretical basis with no known outcome until its already committed to. Hey I have a great idea! But first let's reach V1 with it and then we'll see the details!
10-08-2018 | 08:49 AM
#28
alto
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: M88
Over the course of a full career, one does better to bring earnings forward. In the absence of any retirement benefit being calculated on final average earnings, I'd even take an inversion to the pay tables if I were getting hired today.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
And remember, there are big differences in vacation and sick leave between 2nd and 12th (or 19th) year captains, not to mention the earning power seniority itself can produce if you choose to exercise it.
10-08-2018 | 09:20 AM
#30
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,242
Likes: 693
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
The more time we spend manipulating the structure of the contract, the more time it will take and the more potential for language failures. That lengthens the timeline for what gains? We repeat this every contract and try to evaluate language at the vote or after. Known quantities are valuable and defendable.
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