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-   -   Delta-Aero Mexico JV lost hours (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/119191-delta-aero-mexico-jv-lost-hours.html)

snowdawg 01-11-2019 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by 3 green (Post 2741110)
The penalty for Delta violating our contract is not great enough to keep them from the violation..Pretty simple..More cost effective for them to violate the contract.


Exactly. Part of the arbitration process that's screwed up. It would be different if past history of company breaching contract(s) weighed in on the penalty side. Company would think twice if penalty was 200% of profits for blatant disregard of our PWA. Instead it's usually 10 to 20 percent. Total incentive for company to say who gives a sh@t and do it, business is business.

Bucking Bar 01-12-2019 04:37 AM


Originally Posted by snowdawg (Post 2741302)
Exactly. Part of the arbitration process that's screwed up. It would be different if past history of company breaching contract(s) weighed in on the penalty side. Company would think twice if penalty was 200% of profits for blatant disregard of our PWA. Instead it's usually 10 to 20 percent. Total incentive for company to say who gives a sh@t and do it, business is business.

The repeated violation of our labor protective provisions, combined with this MEC & Administration, combined makes it a bigger risk for the company. They are trying to mitigate that risk of punitive damages by going on the record in communiciations (anyone think it unusual they bothered to record this one and save it for posterity?) with sincere looking promises to comply with our contract.

Now isn't the time to be replacing Contract Admin Chairmen. Much like Scope Chairmen, we have had two in two weeks. We need to simply hire good folks and let theim do their work without judging a person's abilities by their Facebook posts

boog123 01-12-2019 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 2741495)

Now isn't the time to be replacing Contract Admin Chairmen. Much like Scope Chairmen, we have had two in two weeks. We need to simply hire good folks and let theim do their work without judging a person's abilities by their Facebook posts

What experience did said Chairman have in contract admin?

Bucking Bar 01-12-2019 06:20 AM


Originally Posted by boog123 (Post 2741540)
What experience did said Chairman have in contract admin?

One had about a decade running the committee with a team. I don't know his total recovery for Delta pilots, but it was probably more than $45m.

He was replaced with an attorney who I do not know. Chit Chat forum complained that he was not supportive of their demand for retirement negotiations (which is an entirely unrelated opinion to contract enforcement) so the MEC booted him in less than a week. Even after he apologized and stated he had considered more information and regretted posting his opinion (or something like that)

It appears to me we let political opinions out weigh a person's ability to do a job. I don't care if a pilot has a political opinion as long as he (or she) can fly an airplane. We should simply pick the best person who delivers the best product to the pilot group.

Product > Politics

notEnuf 01-12-2019 06:29 AM

The Aeromexico investment was definitely not a mistake. They (we) own half of the dominant Latin carrier and what amount to a country's flag carrier. People will fly them without ever considering their Delta affiliation. This is about global consolidation, not just 1 JV.

Bucking Bar 01-12-2019 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2741547)
The Aeromexico investment was definitely not a mistake. They (we) own half of the dominant Latin carrier and what amount to a country's flag carrier. People will fly them without ever considering their Delta affiliation. This is about global consolidation, not just 1 JV.

exactly correct

We were 11%, American was 25%, United 14% and Aeromexico 15% of the US Mexico transborder market. Nobody had heard of us outside of the beach markets and a little Mexico City.

We bought first place and as the leader, can set the price point.

We are in this for the long game.

sailingfun 01-12-2019 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2741547)
The Aeromexico investment was definitely not a mistake. They (we) own half of the dominant Latin carrier and what amount to a country's flag carrier. People will fly them without ever considering their Delta affiliation. This is about global consolidation, not just 1 JV.

You assume Aero Mexico can remain in business. That may be a big assumption considering how fast Mexico is deteriorating.

notEnuf 01-12-2019 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2741558)
You assume Aero Mexico can remain in business. That may be a big assumption considering how fast Mexico is deteriorating.

I think Mexico will always have a "national" airline. We owned a significant portion of GOL through Brazil's most difficult time, to emerge with a completely rebuilt airline that will soon be able to be owned (49%) by international investors.

sailingfun 01-12-2019 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2741566)
I think Mexico will always have a "national" airline. We owned a significant portion of GOL through Brazil's most difficult time, to emerge with a completely rebuilt airline that will soon be able to be owned (49%) by international investors.

I agree, however if they reorganize yet again what does that leave Delta?

notEnuf 01-12-2019 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2741578)
I agree, however if they reorganize yet again what does that leave Delta?

When GOL was close to reorganization they injected debt along with equity. They could do the same and be considered a major creditor and end up with the same control with clean books and lower costs. That might be an even better result.


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