NormalAbnormal

I have. That's why I'm here trying to figure it out.

"This means you can go to any category where there is at least one pilot junior to you. Further, you can bid any new category that is opening (ex., LAX A320)."

The first sentence applies to MD 22.F.13. The second sentence applies only to a VD 22.F.6.a.

Again, I'm trying to find the contractual language.

NormalAbnormal

I want to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to anyone else reading this. I am NOT giving advice here. I'm just trying to understand the contractual language.

NormalAbnormal

AHHHH!!!!! Thanks, Denny. I was mis-reading 22.F.13. It's as of the AWARD date. The reference in 22.F.6.a allows a VD to enter a new category/existing vacancy that that their seniority can hold, not the seniority of the rescued MD.

In your example, said MD'd pilot can only displace someone junior to them on the MD award date (22.F.13). So, basically, the plug in a new category can't be an MD.

NormalAbnormal

Again, I want to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR!!! My suggestion was for purposes of discussion to clarify my thinking. It was NOT advice for anyone else. Denny's reply made it click. I now understand why MD only bid works in this case.

Dash8Pilot

An MD can be the plug in a new category. Either there weren’t enough senior bidders to fill the category so the MD pilot’s seniority is irrelevant, or the seniority of the MD pilot was better than the pilot that would have been the plug with an AE award.

FL370esq

In simplest terms, if you are being MD'd, you gotta go somewhere (like Closing Time....."You don't have to go home but you can't stay here"). Ergo, you can go anywhere your seniority permits. Now, if you want to go to an existing category, the operative effect of 22.F.13 applies and you can only displace into an existing category that has a pilot junior to you to displace. If no one junior to you is in the category (i.e., ATL777A perhaps), you can keep on knockin' but you can't come in. Move along, nothin' to see here, son.

Now....if you are shooting to MD into a new category (LAX320B seems to be a popular one these days) and, when the computer gets to you and one of those 100 vacancies has not yet been filled and you have put LAX320B on your MD "wish list," voilá.....come on down!!! You are the next LAX320B. You do not need to have someone junior to you in a category to be awarded an MD to that category (LAX320B) if there is still a vacancy in that category. Look at the May 2017 AE. A gazillion DTW744 pilots were MD'd out of the DTW744 category and went to the DTW350 which was also a new category (like LAX320) for that AE. There was no one to displace off the 350 because it didn't exist till that bid. Same in LA.

Clear as mud?

Herkflyr

Even that is slightly misleading... I think. My understanding is that since AEs are run first, there are "phantom" AE awards (like PBS, all during the processing, subject to change). Once all the "theoretical" AEs are processed, then the VD/MDs are considered. In the LAX 717 case, where everyone should be using the MD process, they are considered on a strict seniority basis.

Then those guys will MD on top of those who might have been "awarded" LAX 320, "displacing them" out of the category they were only awarded in computer world.

Of course we pilots never see all the iterations during the process, just the end result, which is entirely fair, completely considering the seniority of the pilots in all situations.

GogglesPisano

2 pages of mental masturbation.

Just do this:

1) Bid want you want, want what you bid.

2) Everyone except the #1 pilot should have an MD in.

2) If you have a VD bid in, it should be identical to your AE bid.

4) Wait for the results.

Trip7

Nothing wrong with discussing the what ifs. All part of the fun. Analysts on TV will spend weeks discussing how March Marchness will go and of course everyone will be wrong

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

FL370esq

You are correct that we never see "the man behind the curtain" (probably not a bad thing either) but, remember, AEs are not run first. The "system" runs by seniority, not by type of bid. When the "system" (Z248?) gets to your seniority number, then it looks at whether you want an AE/VD or need an MD. If you are an LAX717 pilot and you haven't done something stupid like put an AE preference in, when the "system" looks at your sheet and sees you want LAX320B and it sees there is still at least one of the 100 LAX320B vacancies unfilled, that spot is yours regardless because, after the "system" plugs you into that spot, it moves to the next junior pilot who, logically, cannot MD a more senior MD award. Fun stuff, huh?