Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2852465)

She is certainly deadset against commuters getting PS to work and feels it’s a huge safety issue. She also believes it counts as duty time under FAR117 and Delta is in violation of FAR117 when PS is granted.

Originally Posted by deltabound (Post 2853175)

It's a reasonable argument. (But for lawyers, not line pilots, to make. Big difference)

A big fear when the Part 117 rules were being hashed out was that commuting to work was going to be counted as effectively "on duty." It was initially proposed, but retracted due to the virtual elimination of pilots being able to commute to work on their own time. Pilots would pretty much have to live in base....a huge can of worms for so many reasons.

Fatigue was cited as a contributing factor in the Colgan Air crash that spurred the Part 117 rules. The copilot had been (legally) commuting for long hours into position before reporting for duty.

The flying public would be appalled to know that it's perfectly legal for pilots to commute all night, sleep a couple hours in a crew room, slam back some coffee, then fly a 13 hour scheduled day. As long as they state, "Why no, I'm not fatigued. Not at all."

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2853182)

It's also perfectly legal for a non-commuter to be up half the night with a crying infant, have an 0600 report, meaning he or she is waking up at 4 (not even including said crying baby), get stuck on I-285 after a tractor trailer jackknifes, and then fly a long duty day, with a few swigs of coffee to keep them going.

We can always find statistical outliers. At some point we have to be able to grant a pilot the benefit of the doubt regarding their own rest state and fitness for duty.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2853182)

It's also perfectly legal for a non-commuter to be up half the night with a crying infant, have an 0600 report, meaning he or she is waking up at 4 (not even including said crying baby), get stuck on I-285 after a tractor trailer jackknifes, and then fly a long duty day, with a few swigs of coffee to keep them going.

We can always find statistical outliers. At some point we have to be able to grant a pilot the benefit of the doubt regarding their own rest state and fitness for duty.

Originally Posted by BobZ (Post 2853203)

She wasnt an infant. I made her tell me she was 18!......

Cheers....J Epstein.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 2853182)

It's also perfectly legal for a non-commuter to be up half the night with a crying infant, have an 0600 report, meaning he or she is waking up at 4 (not even including said crying baby), get stuck on I-285 after a tractor trailer jackknifes, and then fly a long duty day, with a few swigs of coffee to keep them going.

We can always find statistical outliers. At some point we have to be able to grant a pilot the benefit of the doubt regarding their own rest state and fitness for duty.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2853349)

Let me first say I have commuted most of my career. The standard argument that pilots who live in base can be just as fatigued as commuters really does not carry much weight. Yes there are many reasons someone can be tired before a trip. Commuters have all the exact same issues as pilots living in base AND they have to commute to work.

I think commuting is safe when properly managed just like living in base. The problems come from a minority of commuters who choose to do things like catch a all-nighter from HNL to LAX to connect LAX to ATL and start a 6 day international trip. We are one accident away from the end of commuting as we know it because a minority of commuters can’t do it responsibly.

Originally Posted by marcal (Post 2849161)

M comment on this issue from another thread:

"After reading that, I would have pulled her from the line for mental testing as well. Why? Bc she’s as senior as it gets and decided to make a mountain out of a molehill by going so high up in the chain with pretty baseless accusations, ie no safety reporting? She mentioned a few “incidents” that could have been worse and while correct, we were trained in each CQ cycle as well as safety bulletins, etc. regarding them. Based on her blogs and books, it’s obvious she wanted(wants) to build a name for herself. The fact that she is going after management pay for lack of interviews for a position is galling. She knew this would only lead to problems and if she didn’t than she doesn’t have the SA that I want in a pilot upfront. She should have been filling out ASAPs and FCRs on her NRT layovers, not running from department to department screaming “fire” where there really is none."