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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Operation is running on red line (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/123027-operation-running-red-line.html)

DALMD88FO 08-16-2019 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2871249)
From the latest MEC update:

The Fitness Review Board (FRB) saw a 55% increase in the number of Fitness for Duty Reports (FFDRs) filed during the first half of 2019 as compared to the previous year.
Was there an increase in FDP extension requests during the same time?

Gunfighter 08-16-2019 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2871249)
From the latest MEC update:

The Fitness Review Board (FRB) saw a 55% increase in the number of Fitness for Duty Reports (FFDRs) filed during the first half of 2019 as compared to the previous year.
It sounds like someone on the MEC volunteered to carry the crew intimidation water for Delta. If they cared about reporting relevant info to the membership, they would have included the number of requested FDP extensions and any change in the ratio of requested extensions and FFDRs.

BlueSkies 08-16-2019 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 2870991)
Yes icrew, personnel tab, qualifications, block hours flown. And there is a buffer but you'd have to ask a union guy or scheds guy what it is.
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2871001)
You can also overwrite the date and time to take a look at future data based on your projected schedule.
Awesome, thanks guys. I knew APC would have answers! Overwriting the date is very helpful.

TED74 08-17-2019 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Gunfighter (Post 2871483)
It sounds like someone on the MEC volunteered to carry the crew intimidation water for Delta. If they cared about reporting relevant info to the membership, they would have included the number of requested FDP extensions and any change in the ratio of requested extensions and FFDRs.
I didn't read it that way. I took it as a message saying "if you're feeling more fatigued, you're not alone - make the right call."

FL370esq 08-17-2019 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by Gunfighter (Post 2871483)
It sounds like someone on the MEC volunteered to carry the crew intimidation water for Delta. If they cared about reporting relevant info to the membership, they would have included the number of requested FDP extensions and any change in the ratio of requested extensions and FFDRs.
I'm not sure I understand your point. An FFDR is filed when a pilot has "pulled the plug" on the operation - whether fatigued or unfit for duty, not just because an FDP extension was refused. Regardless, if the those numbers are rising while the amount of flying remains relatively constant (for year-over-year comparative purposes), it would seem the opposite of your "crew intimidation" assertion is happening and pilots, in fact, aren't being intimidated and are calling in fatigued/unfit for duty at greater numbers. I suspect as the company runs the operation at or near the red line with summer IROPS occuring, those numbers will continue to increase.

If you are concerned solely about FDP extensions, maybe you should push for a comparison with other legacies such as United, American and even Southwest. I believe FAR117 only requires a carrier to report actual FDP extensions greater than 30 minutes but it might be interesting to see how Delta ranks among them.

3 green 08-17-2019 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by FL370esq (Post 2871625)
If you are concerned solely about FDP extensions, maybe you should push for a comparison with other legacies such as United, American and even Southwest. I believe FAR117 only requires a carrier to report actual FDP extensions greater than 30 minutes but it might be interesting to see how Delta ranks among them.
I have not seen the data, but I heard from a reliable source that Delta is WAY ahead of other legacy carriers on FDP extensions. Light years ahead of them..Maybe someone can find that data and post it.

Trip7 08-17-2019 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by 3 green (Post 2871853)
I have not seen the data, but I heard from a reliable source that Delta is WAY ahead of other legacy carriers on FDP extensions. Light years ahead of them..Maybe someone can find that data and post it.
I agree. Friends at United and AA say they almost never extend.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Hillbilly 08-18-2019 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 2870514)
We should change this. DC excess should be included in profit sharing calculations especially if we are paying ALPA dues on it.
That would make it interesting. Profit Sharing currently gets DC. Now we make some of the DC get profit sharing which would also get more DC which would also get more profit sharing..........

JamesBond 08-18-2019 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by Tadertot (Post 2869658)
Can we agree that hopefully this summer was a statistical outlier and not an indication of how summers are expected to be going forward?

I’ve also flown with plenty of the furloughed, sat sideways crowd and everyone I’ve flown with lately agrees that this summer has had a relatively higher suck level compared to years past.
"Hopefully"? yes. Practically? Nope. The bigger this airline gets, the worse this problem will get.

longcall 08-18-2019 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by FL370esq (Post 2871625)
I'm not sure I understand your point. An FFDR is filed when a pilot has "pulled the plug" on the operation - whether fatigued or unfit for duty, not just because an FDP extension was refused. Regardless, if the those numbers are rising while the amount of flying remains relatively constant (for year-over-year comparative purposes), it would seem the opposite of your "crew intimidation" assertion is happening and pilots, in fact, aren't being intimidated and are calling in fatigued/unfit for duty at greater numbers. I suspect as the company runs the operation at or near the red line with summer IROPS occuring, those numbers will continue to increase.

If you are concerned solely about FDP extensions, maybe you should push for a comparison with other legacies such as United, American and even Southwest. I believe FAR117 only requires a carrier to report actual FDP extensions greater than 30 minutes but it might be interesting to see how Delta ranks among them.
I agree with all of the above except that you do need to file an FFDR for a extension refusal. It is the company's current policy that the only valid reason for refusing the extension is due to fatigue/unfit. So any time you refuse an extension you must fill out an FFDR.


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