You are correct it is thread drift but it is important to set the record straight. The non-rev issue is easy. Folks going to work have priority besides that stick with the traditional priorities.

Scoop

Exactly. A "working crew member" flying around equals deadhead positive space. A commuter is not a "working crew member". It is voluntary flying just like flying around to visit grandma. Use the jumpseat. Non rev is for personal travel. My personal travel is just as important as your personal travel. Don't care if you are going to work or not, thats on you.

There wasn't a single 9E pilot that asked for S3A. Delta did that on their own. Understanding why leads us right back to scope. I see why you'd want to avoid the subject, but scope is the ultimate cause. Wouldn't have passengers being bumped by PS commuters if there weren't thousands of contractors flying Delta passengers. Wouldn't have thousands of contractors without selling scope. I'm not trying to be vindictive, but the degradation of their non-contractual benefits was ultimately their own doing.

There was not a scope sales. Comair tried to steal Delta pilot's seniority because they had ALPA merger policy on their side.

The RLA doesn't protect you against code share, I would have done the same thing as Delta pilot's if I were in their shoes, unfortunately.

I’m afraid I don’t understand the relevance of the Comair reference.

As for the rest, I am not here to hang DL pilots for selling scope. That dead horse has been well beaten. I would only say that DL pilots should understand the consequences of their voting decision in regards to scope. Just because they couldn’t foresee the full consequences doesn’t make it anyone else’s fault.

Instead of complaining here and telling 9E crews their families don't matter (not directed at you), come up with a solution that makes business sense to Delta. Business is what prompted DL's decision to implement S3A in the first place.

Regional carriers were once stand alone air lines, that code shared with larger ones. For Delta pilots, the ONLY option to preserve scope was to force a merger. However, that still does not protect you from further code share. So, because Comair/ASA were ALPA, the merger would have been ALPA merger policy. In other words, Delta pilots would have gotten all the regional pilots, in perhaps a DOH SLI, with no guarantee the planes would be sticking around, and not pushed off to another codeshare.

So the choice was, permit branded regional flying in exchange for code share restrictions, or vacate their seat for a regional pilot.

In hindsight, the Delta pilots should have removed ALPA, and gone their own way. This would have prevented half of the bad stuff that happened to them in the following years.

Thank you for explaining.

You are basically telling all our retirees they don't matter!

Care to explain? And when you do, remember that zero 9E pilots asked for S3A or complained about retirees having flight benefits. Any beef you have should be taken up with your management.

A little touchy you bring things up but don't want to discuss unless everyone agreesvwith you

I literally just asked you to explain yourself (ie: have a discussion)... Tell me how my advising you to find a business-friendly solution to your problem is the same as me telling you your retirees don't matter.

Or are you having trouble with that?

9E parents travel at the same priority as Delta retirees, but with an obviously MUCH lower seniority date. So they don't get better priority.

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At first I was thinking this as well, but his point is still valid since 9E active kids/spouses board before DL active parents and retirees. Either group having priority over the other (9E active vs. DL parents/retirees) could cost Delta money in some way, but I suppose Delta decided 9E active crews getting PSC was more expensive and dealt with it accordingly.

Yea that's correct, but to correct what he said, my parents always travel below Delta retirees. I'd have to look but I believe my kids and spouse only get s3a if they're with me right? Otherwise it's s3??

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On all DL and DCI including 9E, 9E parents/retirees travel at S3CR which is well below anything DL retirees travel at on anybody


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That's what I thought. But the kids/wife still bump retirees if you travel with them to drop them off at Grandma's, or anywhere else... So the OP's issue remains, and it is a valid issue for discussion.

I just felt that complaining about working 9E crew's kids getting travel priority over retirees being "wrong" shouldn't be done without acknowledging how the issue with WO contractors developed in the first place. Hence, Delta's business position must also be considered when discussing a solution.

A 30 year retired 9e employee
Gets on a 9e flight after the son/daughter of a new hire DL employee. Where’s the outrage?

This whole conversation is a moot point any way, the priority isn't going to change, and if management is willing to add flight benefits to the contract, then DALPA will want positive space tickets, which have an actual tangible value assigned to them.

Are you choosing to live somewhere other than where you are based? Have you attempted multiple avenues including two legging to get to work? Is there an IROP? My experience is that anytime I’ve had extenuating circumstances commuting I notify scheduling of said circumstance and am told to get there when I can. I have never been Positive Spaced by scheduling here at DL to get in position for a rotation or assignment. But I also do my homework and know when I need to look at alternatives when it comes to commuting, and that’s my responsibility because I choose to commute

Why do you believe it cost Delta money to put 9E Employees Families on vs Retirees? Simply asking a question due to what you stated...not sure why it’s hard to answer that?

Why not? There is a Delta policy that explicitly allows you to be booked positive space on a commute if you miss your first option. It is company and union supported. And during many IROPs, the company has allowed positive space commuting. In your argument, the company is rewarding us with a higher priority non rev because we choose to commute.

Because of your earlier rudeness I'm not going to spoon-feed you. Go back and read.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2877918-post183.html

The policy does however require proper planning including weather, special events and seat availability. If you follow those guidelines the likeyhood of needing a PS seat is very small.

I think what you're missing is edv isnt staffed like delta. Especially years ago ( which included times when i was there) it was common knowledge if you lived in a select number of cities with limited service you were getting a pos space ticket in for summer and Thanksgiving to just past new years. Call them after the first and say, good luck because im not getting on, you'd get on hold and they'd just roll ya a pos space ticket because the was no staffing. Now that edv is staffed up its different, except on days when 85% of your pilots are commuting in for first legs, hint, its a friday often, and delta has no seats because theyre still recovering from Thursday afternoons irop.

I love the profit sharing checks but I gotta wonder how much worse the profits will be when edv is cancelling half their flights for the weekend because the Captains from dtw, dfw, den and the FOs from Florida first open seat or jumpseat will be Monday. *Shrug*

(Bring all the RJs to mainline).

While small, it does happen.

My story was commute from BOS to JFK....CAVU up/down entire East coast with no delays, IROPS, etc. Night prior shows flight wide open. The next morning, the flight that was two flights before my planned was a RJ....they ended up CNX' for MX, so all PAX got rolled to the next flight (which was my primary). I show up at airport and not a single non-rev got on. Called Scheds and they put me on my backup PS without even blinking an eye and I still made my sign in on time.

Glad the PS option is there.

That’s exactly the situation it’s designed for!

Sure beats walking around with a pocket full of half fares like the olden days.

I've had to use it several times and every time it bumped a paying passenger. If you live in a place where there is a hub serviced primarily by RJ, your open flight is almost guaranteed to fill up after an inevitable delay by DCI. Plus, since most senior people wait until 1 hour prior to list for non-rev, the "what your seniority can hold 24 hours out" part only plays to my benefit to use UTC.

And this whole comment thread is about Endeavor. They have the same clause as we do. The major reason they were bumped up to S3A was because they are being bumped by retirees who could travel on any day and Endeavor was bumping paying pax on their backup. And that costs money.

Good for you! I’m gonna stick the contractual requirements and continue using second option positive space.

Your argument is pointless, and you act like these incidents happen all the time on a daily basis. Idk why you couldn’t respond to two requests for an answer to your statement, and instead start insulting..like someone else pointed out it’s evident you are closed minded and very opinionated on your comments here. I’ll digress from feeding the troll...it would definitely be a sick call or looking out the window on a trip with you 😒

Bingo!!!!!

Take it in the good natured spirit of jest it’s intended but “likeyhood” just might be my new favorite word :D

As far as 9E pilot knows, the jumpseat on that oversold flight was open until they attempted to list at the gate. If only there was a way to see if a jumpseat was occupied.

Exactly, and a million years ago you could list ahead of time if you called the base CP. Now, we give you no tools and we won't, but expect you to somehow figure it out.