I would humbly suggest that before using terms like “Deltoids” and casting other aspersions towards pilots that don’t see things the way out do, that you put some efforts towards reading comprehension. Denny Crane sets a great example of being balanced and respectful, even when disagreeing. All would do well to aspire to be so well regarded.

My post started with a summary of my interaction with my representatives (thank you for the reminder to do what I had just said I had done), and that the lack of details and transparency about our ask, especially with respect to the MBCBP, was a problem that bothers me. I’m not interested in a sell job. I am interested in details that I can rationally evaluate. I am less trusting of anyone that attempts to sell me something and simultaneously suggests I don’t need or couldn’t comprehend the details and that I should support my reps.

Furthermore, as a number of posters have pointed out, details about “voluntary” participation, IRS approval of a notional plan, notional rates of return (and inadequate or outright dishonest numbers to use as comparisons), and the confusion over MBCBP and minimum balance details being separate issues, even when mentioned in conjunction with one another, all raise rational and reasonable questions that ought to be more transparently explained before expecting any pilot, regardless of their proximity to retirement age, to support. My interaction with my reps (via email and in person), has not been reassuring when I ask these questions, not merely because there were many unknowns or non-answers, but because there was a presumption that I ought to support the union, with or without answers, and I just don’t think that’s how it ought to work.

 

Pay, because it counts toward profit sharing and pension. The percentage needs to be high enough to have the company fill the full amount when earnings can equal 0 employee dollars. 20% minimum. A 9% increase in DC is equal to a 9% increase in pay for probably 75% of the seniority list.

 

The liberal hate makes me pass right over your posts. As for fiscal responsibility... the "conservatives", that's an oxymoron, shout about us not being able to pay our debt and then increase it.[MOD EDIT] your politics don't belong here.

 

It's still trapped money with no control and a DB and we know how that plays out when times get tough. What's wrong with just paying me and allowing me to determine how to spend MY earnings?

 

This will be determined by plan administration and fees, not me or you or ALPA or Delta. The more reliable the return the lower the return. This is akin to an insurance product, not an investment.

 

Ahhhhhh, the "we know what can happen to a DB type plan" argument. Yes, the MBCBP is a DB type plan but.......it will not be lost in tough times or a bankruptcy like the old DB. My understanding is it's your money in an account in your name. You just cannot control what it is invested in.

There is nothing wrong with that. Only now you are dictating how I (and many others close to retirement) are paid their money. Maybe they want something different. This is why the optional part is so critical. Then everyone can choose what's best for themselves.

Denny

 

I'm not dictating anything, I am advocating for my money to be mine and yours to be yours. I don't think trading a tax advantage scheme for you for a year or two is a fair trade to lock my money up for decades. The "optional" is not optional and never has been. We are hoping to design as brand new plan that has specific features we desire, along with differed tax liability. This new, never before created or approved plan relies on government approval, color me skeptical.

 

Well it's good you are advocating what's mine is mine and what yours is yours. That's a given and irrelevant. What is relevant is how we receive what is ours. Your opinion is different than mine. Not right or wrong just different. If, as you say, the plan is not optional (which I'd argue it has yet to be determined) then you are dictating how I receive my money just as much as I'm dictating it to you. You do not have the high ground here......we are on level footing with differing opinions.

You are also making this personal by saying it's for me for a year or two. The tax deferral is not just for a couple of years, it's for the life of the plan and affects everyone, not just me.

Denny

 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Let's be honest. You've admittedly benefited from the reserve system and profit sharing negotiated and paid for by the very pilots you're afraid will receive a windfall at your expense. Let's hear the facts and stop spreading fear that you're getting hosed. Let's hear the facts and then vote.

 

OK Mr Helper. What would you do since you’re so smart on this issue??? Really. What would you do or can all you do is criticize. Show me a viable alternative.