Politics Thread
04-27-2020, 09:07 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by Turbosina
E39 any day over the E46 
. And the M2C, while blessed with plenty of straight-line power, has none of the handling that defined the early gen M3s. I'd call both of them sports sedans, not sports cars.
The 911 is absolutely a GT car these days. Hard to say exactly when that transformation happened, but there's a reason Porsche has continued to put more power and capability into the Cayman and Boxster. Because they knew that with the 911's constant growth, it was moving the brand away from its true sports car heritage, and providing few b options for people who wanted 2 seats and sub-4 second 0-60 times.
But this is all, of course, purely personal opinion
. And the M2C, while blessed with plenty of straight-line power, has none of the handling that defined the early gen M3s. I'd call both of them sports sedans, not sports cars.The 911 is absolutely a GT car these days. Hard to say exactly when that transformation happened, but there's a reason Porsche has continued to put more power and capability into the Cayman and Boxster. Because they knew that with the 911's constant growth, it was moving the brand away from its true sports car heritage, and providing few b options for people who wanted 2 seats and sub-4 second 0-60 times.
But this is all, of course, purely personal opinion
I suppose you’re an expert on virology too?
04-27-2020, 11:32 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,852
Originally Posted by Gspeed
So GT cars aren’t subsets of the sports car segment and 2-door E46 M3’s are sports sedans? Got it.
I suppose you’re an expert on virology too?
I suppose you’re an expert on virology too?
It's like judging attractiveness of the opposite sex (or same, if that's how you roll.) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't define exactly what a sports car is. It's not just a particular spec; it's a reason for being. It's an intent in the minds of the designers. I will say, though, that aside from the air-cooled 911s I have never driven anything with 4 seats -- no matter how vestigial -- that I would call a 'sports car'.
Personally I see a "sports car" as being distinct from a GT car, just like a 'sports sedan' in my mind is not a 'sports car.' I would also distinguish 'sports cars' from 'supercars' like the McLaren 720, or hypercars like the Enzo, 918, etc.
But again, it's just my personal opinion. As you can see from the below, I am a bit of an enthusiast...
Currently in my garage:
Porsche 718 Cayman S ('18)
Porsche 718 Boxster ('18)
Formerly in my garage:
Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce ('80)
Acura NSX ('90)
Lotus Elan SE ('67)
Honda Prelude ('88)
Have autocrossed or tracked:
Mazda Miata NA, NB, NC generations
Both Porsche 718s
Porsche 911 Turbo S (991.2 gen)
Last edited by Turbosina; 04-27-2020 at 12:02 PM.
04-27-2020, 12:13 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by Turbosina
Aren't we all experts? Isn't that why we frequent Internet forums, to share our wisdom with all the uninformed souls out there?
It's like judging attractiveness of the opposite sex (or same, if that's how you roll.) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't define exactly what a sports car is. It's not just a particular spec; it's a reason for being. It's an intent in the minds of the designers. I will say, though, that aside from the air-cooled 911s I have never driven anything with 4 seats -- no matter how vestigial -- that I would call a 'sports car'.
Personally I see a "sports car" as being distinct from a GT car, just like a 'sports sedan' in my mind is not a 'sports car.' I would also distinguish 'sports cars' from 'supercars' like the McLaren 720, or hypercars like the Enzo, 918, etc.
But again, it's just my personal opinion. As you can see from the below, I am a bit of an enthusiast...
Currently in my garage:
Porsche 718 Cayman S ('18)
Porsche 718 Boxster ('18)
Formerly in my garage:
Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce ('80)
Acura NSX ('90)
Lotus Elan SE ('67)
Honda Prelude ('88)
Have autocrossed or tracked:
Mazda Miata NA, NB, NC generations
Both Porsche 718s
Porsche 911 Turbo S (991.2 gen)
It's like judging attractiveness of the opposite sex (or same, if that's how you roll.) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't define exactly what a sports car is. It's not just a particular spec; it's a reason for being. It's an intent in the minds of the designers. I will say, though, that aside from the air-cooled 911s I have never driven anything with 4 seats -- no matter how vestigial -- that I would call a 'sports car'.
Personally I see a "sports car" as being distinct from a GT car, just like a 'sports sedan' in my mind is not a 'sports car.' I would also distinguish 'sports cars' from 'supercars' like the McLaren 720, or hypercars like the Enzo, 918, etc.
But again, it's just my personal opinion. As you can see from the below, I am a bit of an enthusiast...
Currently in my garage:
Porsche 718 Cayman S ('18)
Porsche 718 Boxster ('18)
Formerly in my garage:
Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce ('80)
Acura NSX ('90)
Lotus Elan SE ('67)
Honda Prelude ('88)
Have autocrossed or tracked:
Mazda Miata NA, NB, NC generations
Both Porsche 718s
Porsche 911 Turbo S (991.2 gen)
04-27-2020, 12:28 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,852
Originally Posted by Gspeed
It’s all good. You received bonus points for the Miata classification and experience. My garage is full of P-cars as well. One is not enough!
First time I took the 718 Boxster to the dealer for a service, I...
...walked out with another 718, a Cayman S, to add to the stable.
If I had more than 2 indoor garage spaces, the Taycan 4S would be very much at the top of my list.
I blame Porsche's online configurator. The most income-draining website I've ever visited.
04-27-2020, 12:33 PM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: The Beginnings
Posts: 1,317
Originally Posted by Turbosina
I know, right? It's a sickness, really...
First time I took the 718 Boxster to the dealer for a service, I...
...walked out with another 718, a Cayman S, to add to the stable.
If I had more than 2 indoor garage spaces, the Taycan 4S would be very much at the top of my list.
I blame Porsche's online configurator. The most income-draining website I've ever visited.
First time I took the 718 Boxster to the dealer for a service, I...
...walked out with another 718, a Cayman S, to add to the stable.
If I had more than 2 indoor garage spaces, the Taycan 4S would be very much at the top of my list.
I blame Porsche's online configurator. The most income-draining website I've ever visited.
(probably couldn't even afford the charging station though)
04-27-2020, 12:49 PM
#40
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
The Honda Odessy driven by a 40 something house-wife between school/gym/shopping/coffeeshop/shopping/school/sports/shopping/home is faster than a F1 car driven by Aryton Sienna at 9am on his 4th cup of coffee. A gray Odessey with the driver reaching behind her to beat children with her cell phone hand is 5 miles per hour faster than that. Something about having four curbed wheels and a almost flat rear tire makes them wicked fast in a store parking lot.
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