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09-09-2020, 03:50 PM
#1021
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Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
Which means you would not have equality of opportunity. You would be equal in regards to the law though.
09-09-2020, 03:58 PM
#1022
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Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
I appreciate you giving me your own thoughts on what the term means. When you say different treatment what do you mean? Do you consider things like affirmative action as a part of or example of systemic racism, as it treats people differently? Does this definition only apply to one group, as you have specified, or is there systemic racism against other groups as well? Is the supposed different treatment a cause of the outcomes or are the outcomes a cause of the different treatment?
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished. Without mentoring children were either labor or future profit, not people who were cared for or taught the value of family. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
09-09-2020, 04:00 PM
#1023
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot
I am saying equality of rights to pursue ones opportunities. Not that opportunities are necessarily equal.
09-09-2020, 04:09 PM
#1024
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Affirmative action was an attempt to help correct systemic racism. I think it has largely failed because the qualifications of the individual were not to the standards of the job. This is due to the other failings of systemic racism in not having educated and trained minorities. The system is self substantiating and often a closed loop of disproportionate burdens which result in a higher degree of failure for African Americans to escape. Yes, systemic racism works against Hispanics as well which is why black is often synonymous with black and brown. (which includes Indians both native and from Asia) Race other than white is often used as well.
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves or due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished without mentoring children were either labor or future profit. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves or due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished without mentoring children were either labor or future profit. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
JMHO
09-09-2020, 04:11 PM
#1025
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Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Affirmative action was an attempt to help correct systemic racism. I think it has largely failed because the qualifications of the individual were not to the standards of the job. This is due to the other failings of systemic racism in not having educated and trained minorities. The system is self substantiating and often a closed loop of disproportionate burdens which result in a higher degree of failure for African Americans to escape. Yes, systemic racism works against Hispanics as well which is why black is often synonymous with black and brown. (which includes Indians both native and from Asia) Race other than white is often used as well.
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished. Without mentoring children were either labor or future profit, not people who were cared for or taught the value of family. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished. Without mentoring children were either labor or future profit, not people who were cared for or taught the value of family. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
09-09-2020, 04:14 PM
#1026
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Affirmative action was an attempt to help correct systemic racism. I think it has largely failed because the qualifications of the individual were not to the standards of the job. This is due to the other failings of systemic racism in not having educated and trained minorities. The system is self substantiating and often a closed loop of disproportionate burdens which result in a higher degree of failure for African Americans to escape. Yes, systemic racism works against Hispanics as well which is why black is often synonymous with black and brown. (which includes Indians both native and from Asia) Race other than white is often used as well.
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished. Without mentoring children were either labor or future profit, not people who were cared for or taught the value of family. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
Most people immigrated here for opportunity, even Hispanics. The circumstances for most black families being here is different. The condition of slavery made it illegal to educate blacks and by property right tore apart the nuclear family unit. Years of this treatment and disadvantage means blacks are behind in almost every measurable benchmark compared to other races and therefore need the most assistance in bringing them to the income and education norms of the other races. Family has value and we all know that, but when a disproportional number of homes are single parent due to abnormally high incarceration rates or have less income to sustain themselves due to lack of meaningful employment the cycle is perpetuated. Add to that a different experience with family that often required adaptation to an ad-hoc family unit just for survival and the meaning of mother and father is diminished. Without mentoring children were either labor or future profit, not people who were cared for or taught the value of family. Granted not all were or are in this situation but enough are that there are discernible statistical differences. I don’t have all the solutions but I do recognize a problem. Dignity and hard work by all is the solution I see. But don’t discount the generational knowledge that minimizing ones effort was also a survival strategy. They, just as we all, need to know they are valued by society and not cast aside or ignored. My $.02 (you asked for it)
While I would agree that systemic racism did exist in the past, the laws that allowed it have been changed and it is no longer legal to discriminate. Would not all the laws, affirmative action, outreach programs, and corporate support indicate that systemic racism does not currently exist?
Or maybe a better question, what does a society free of systemic racism look it?
09-09-2020, 04:28 PM
#1027
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,047
Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
I did ask for it.
While I would agree that systemic racism did exist in the past, the laws that allowed it have been changed and it is no longer legal to discriminate. Would not all the laws, affirmative action, outreach programs, and corporate support indicate that systemic racism does not currently exist?
Or maybe a better question, what does a society free of systemic racism look it?
While I would agree that systemic racism did exist in the past, the laws that allowed it have been changed and it is no longer legal to discriminate. Would not all the laws, affirmative action, outreach programs, and corporate support indicate that systemic racism does not currently exist?
Or maybe a better question, what does a society free of systemic racism look it?
09-09-2020, 04:30 PM
#1028
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by notEnuf
I don’t have an answer to the utopian society but I think it would have fewer disparities in incarceration, income, education and wealth amount the race demographics. For every Sowel there’s a Cornel West
09-09-2020, 04:33 PM
#1029
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Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
look back maybe 10 pages to jrthoki link to Thomas Sowell. It is 41 minutes long but it addresses the black nuclear family prior to the 60's and then with LBJ's Great Society the numbers have plummeted. Back to my argument about the government test eroding an individuals dignity and personal responsibility. It passes the "logic" test much better that targeted systemic racism claim that only exists against Blacks that you keep throwing out.
JMHO
JMHO
https://youtu.be/zorEMP8GxBA
09-09-2020, 04:45 PM
#1030
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Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Affirmative Action creates academic failure.
https://youtu.be/VVvnTByzTmA
https://youtu.be/VVvnTByzTmA
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