In other words, when the company pats you on the head, and claims we are all a big family when times are good, and then stabs you in the back and kicks you to the curb when things go bad, shrug it all off and have a happy “can do” attitude when/if you return. Because “People before Profits!” Thanks Ed!!

When it is all sunshine and puppies and 6-month upgrades to Captain, the views become filtered by rose-colored glasses, especially when record profits are being made. When things turn ugly, you get to see the Company for what it truly is - a business entity where you are merely an expense on the balance sheet. Those of us furloughed in the early 90s and early 00s have seen the bipolar (and dysfunctional) "Delta family." Ironically, Ed was there for the last downturn as well. Unfortunately, it seems another generation of pilots will get to see it (and Ed) in their true colors.

Interesting nuggets from today’s company COVID townhall from the CFO.

1) Around 50:20 into the video he said we AE burning about $25 million per day and that he thought that was as far as we could really go on the cost side of the equation. In that light, putting a fork in the UNA pilots would be short-sighted from a financial standpoint (little more than a rounding error), and it is possible that that the ongoing sound and fury may be overcome be events, ie no furlough. I would hope that in addition to the talk with EB the other day by our chairman (and the reminder about pursuing EVERY voluntary measure first), that the union also highlight this comment by the CFO regarding the futility of trying to cut meaningful costs via furlough of our lowest paid pilots.

2) Also in the CFOs comments, he mentioned how the company has improved in the rate they’re processing refunds. He thinks that helps with goodwill towards customers and that they will come back with their money later on when they want to travel. That mindset would be consistent with keeping pilots on the books in order to preserve morale and the brand in the future. I personally think a last minute act of goodwill by the company to not furlough anyone would go far to erase memories of being used as pawns.

3) The CFO also said that one competitor in particular seemed to have reduced cash burn by a lot less than us, but hadn’t processed nearly as much in refunds. We’ve evidently paid back somewhere around $2 billion. He believes that holding that money (which will be spent now) will be a drag on recovery for that company compared to fresh cash coming in when we start seeing increased demand. Interesting perspective.

Good luck with that.... I personally don’t see it.... I hope I’m wrong.

Yeah it depends on lots of factors, some of which even in early August won't be known yet.

Effects of the actual number and distribution of VEOP participants.

Any additional CARES 2 welfare, its terms and if we take it.

The final number they eventually calculate that they'd even consider furloughing relative to CARES 2 either way, when, and if at all.

That would be measured by their best guess on recall and retraining timelines and costs juxtaposed to differing recovery models.

Possibly dependant on any conditional, temporary ALV deal that can MEMRAT, in exchange for temporary and permanant QOL and Scope gains.

Acting like the company unconditionally has a moral obligation to bleed unlimited amounts of money, for full pay, for no or very little work, for unlimited amounts of pilots (or any group) for as long as it takes or they're being mean is simply unreasonable.

Likewise, the trust gap is wide right now due to numerous freely chosen tactics, so any potential deal will require a strong "trust but verify" foundation, as well as adequate immediate and long term ROI.

Here here. Deadhead language can easily be improved to no center seats. Also if you want ALV reductions then I want profit sharing restoration.

I’m not sure with which part you don’t see or agree with. I think either of the hypotheticals are possible/plausible. I’m not sure about the actual probability for any of it.

On the question of whether they company may not furlough, I can see two arguments from a business perspective. One is that cutting every penny that is available is one less penny in debt that must be repaid, so take whatever you can from the pilots, including furlough. The other is that a furlough hurts the brand, and that costs money as well.

It is possible that someone like the CFO and CEO don’t think a furlough is the right play for costs or the brand, but one or the other is willing to empower an ambitious underling to pursue further savings in an environment where furlough seems like a credible or likely outcome. It would be a win-win for the company if they extract concessions and then proceed to “save” pilots from a furlough that secretly they never intended to execute (because it had little upside for financial savings and significant potential downside for the brand).

On the question of goodwill from pilots not furloughed, that is also tough to predict. I think both JL and RG have ensconced themselves as sufficiently untrustworthy that there is little that either could do to redeem their reputation amongst the pilots, but imagine if one or both were moved and the decision to not furlough was announced just before or just after the shuffle. Would the pilots spared a furlough have the same level of ire towards the company at that point? I dunno, but I think it is within the realm of possibility.

​​​​​​I'll take a much lower top of the line construction window as an improvement for us.

Agree that both would easily be a part of a broader package of gains as a price of admission for considering a temporary ALV deal.

The sad part is they were stupid enough to buy into the scam in the first place…