Originally Posted by Crown

1. They're claiming force majeure, therefore wiping out the 30 days of furlough pay.
2. AFAIK, this type of saving the junior pilots has never been presented as an opportunity. The way that I see it, the United ALPA focused on caring for the top 1/3 of the pilots, alienating 2/3rds of their pilot group. Sure, it passed, but unless you are walking in their shoes, you don't understand the desperation of saving your job.
3. We all knew/know furlough was and is a risk. It doesn't mean we should resign it as a guarantee if there are methods to work around it.
4. JamesBond is a very selfish person. I'm sure he'd say the same thing about me. There's one big difference - I was willing to discuss retirement but NOT at the expense of other things! He was willing to sell EVERYTHING for retirement gains. That by definition makes him selfish.
5. We could certainly look at retirement enhancements when that time comes. I'm not just going to automatically sign off on it, but I do think we should explore it as a thank you to the senior guys for showing unity to the junior guys. With that being said, let's be honest - senior guys are not going to be giving up money. With lower GS limits, with an extra day off or two, I suspect senior guys will be making MORE.

Originally Posted by Crown

1. They're claiming force majeure, therefore wiping out the 30 days of furlough pay.
2. AFAIK, this type of saving the junior pilots has never been presented as an opportunity. The way that I see it, the United ALPA focused on caring for the top 1/3 of the pilots, alienating 2/3rds of their pilot group. Sure, it passed, but unless you are walking in their shoes, you don't understand the desperation of saving your job.
3. We all knew/know furlough was and is a risk. It doesn't mean we should resign it as a guarantee if there are methods to work around it.
4. JamesBond is a very selfish person. I'm sure he'd say the same thing about me. There's one big difference - I was willing to discuss retirement but NOT at the expense of other things! He was willing to sell EVERYTHING for retirement gains. That by definition makes him selfish.
5. We could certainly look at retirement enhancements when that time comes. I'm not just going to automatically sign off on it, but I do think we should explore it as a thank you to the senior guys for showing unity to the junior guys. With that being said, let's be honest - senior guys are not going to be giving up money. With lower GS limits, with an extra day off or two, I suspect senior guys will be making MORE.

Originally Posted by tunes

the claimed FM decreasing furlough pay by 30 days for the group that was going to get 90 days of pay. Everyone was either getting 30 or 60 days of furlough pay

Originally Posted by Funk

The Market Based Cash Balance Plan is another retirement win because it will give another avenue for cash advantaged savings for retirement. Because of VEOP, and the previously discussed math regarding minimum balance questions, there are far fewer pilots that would need a lump sum payment to meet a minimum balance (value of minimum balance TBD). I’d say the first big obstacle would be a return of passengers and business travelers. That milestone may now be within the timeframe of this potential LOA, and then we can go back to flying and (hopefully) worrying about how much money we’re making..

Originally Posted by boog123

its 100% your money, so the money saved is just deferred taxes. Given the earnings will be reduced the next few years, nothing burger IMO. Certainly not a single issue yes.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Great for the future if we get back to 16% profit sharing. Knocking this stuff out now means less to work through when section 6 negotiations resume.

Originally Posted by 20Fathoms

I’m leaning yes on 20-04. Maybe it’s because the holidays are approaching and with the chance to save furloughs from the street I don’t need to be any more like Jacob Marley and Scrooge than usual . But I am a little surprised at how cavalier the hard yes people are in dismissing those with concerns about the LOA.

The prevailing attitude seems to be “ It’s simple. It’s a huge win for us, if you’re inconvenienced by the TLV cut just white or green slip it up and quit whining”. Well it’s not quite that simple for everyone. I’ve had a blanket greenslip in for the last two years and haven’t gotten a single one. I bid reserve so I have no ability to white slip. Even if I did bid a line, the open time is pretty slim in my category. Correct me if I’m wrong (happens often) but not lowering the TLV floor is a pretty straight pay cut for reservists no? By my back of the scotch napkin math I think I’ll lose about 8k next year..... Might just be worth it to save the furloughs and for the lowering of the TLV ceiling later but I don’t think the dismissive attitude of “just pick up an extra trip of two” is putting our best foot forward. Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Gen6

I agree that reserve will probably flat line at 72. However, in the past the guarantee ran higher than 72 in the summer. So the hit is more than 1 hour.