IDK about that. It may appear that way statistically simply because pretty much everyone these days is either military or a "flight school kid". The "lost decade" destroyed a huge part of the 61 and 121 flight training infrastructure. The GARA legislation from the 90's has largely worn off and the everything bubble fueled by easy credit has caused the entire sector to balloon in price, along with the comical college price bubble. Flight schools should be the same price adjusted only for inflation as they were decades ago and colleges should be a fraction of their costs then, as knowledge has only gotten faster and cheaper. Instead, massive malinvestment by edict has pumped up the costs of so many things that there are fewer gateways into the profession at a much higher price than before.

We're approaching medical school levels of costs of entry. Its hard to do it part 61 with fewer financing opportunities. The remaining flight schools have simply adpated to it while most mom and pops can't.

Its not that they prefer "flight school kids" but rather that is the vast majority of all that's left in the current pipeline.

What difficulty should we be practicing the Cut-E practice tests?


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Thanks, gives me some hope!

Sitting at just over 4000 TT, 2000 Turbine PIC 121 and currently an instructor at my current airline with an internal LOR. No email yet. They're probably swamped with apps right now. Just a waiting game right now is my guess.

(Shrugs) I went to a different part 61 school for almost every license during primary training, but that was 20 years ago so…

Right. That was much more common then than it is now. I still don't think it matters a whole lot, but since the large majority of civilian pilots hired now and especially in the future will come from bigger 141 type flight schools, it can appear that part 61 training makes a future applicant not competitive, which just isn't true IMO.

There may be some small amount of preference given to certain big box flight schools especially those associated with unis etc. Even if that is the case, it would become just another tiny points added to the score kind of thing. My point was that an otherwise competitive application in total will still have a great chance regardless of initial training background because in all cases (until and unless we go the MPL/ab-initio route) any applicant will have way more time and experience than that.

Gents,

New guy here. I apologize if this have been covered with the new hiring changes. If so I will go back in hiding and do 'more betterer' searching. Just looking for a few bump steers. I don't know what I don't know!

Few questions in one here. I wanted to get your thoughts on the removal of the Unrestricted ATP requirement being removed from the hiring letter. It now just says commercial / instrument rating with "all aernouatical experience requirments for an ATP." All in accordance with the 61.159. Obviously, it was removed for a reason and I have some buddies telling me DAL doesn't seem to care that much "if you dropped some cash to go pretend to fly a light twin." Allegedly...

Is it worth it to go pay the couple thousand bucks to check the container? Someone said it brilliantly earlier and recommended don't cut corners for this opportunity. I am leaning on going to knock it because of my flight time is on the low end. I have been asking some buddies currently with the company. However, there seems to be two schools of thought. I am leaning on the second.

1. Seniority is everything, get your app in NOW with 1450 hours and no ATP
-philosophy is that by the time they call, you'll be good
-Submit my civilian logbook numbers (which I add .3 to every flight IAW FAR regs for taxi time. That puts me over 1700 and all unrestricted ATP mins met)
-If interviewed make sure my military time matches my logs (which it does. The local FSDO advised me how to log the time on a single line entry and said when I do check ride he will give unrestricted ATP based off the taxi time).

2. Be patient, wait until 1500 exactly and submit AND beef up the stats in the meantime.

Stats:

-1450 total time (no multiplier / 1100ish fighter PIC / 200 IP hours) all other ATP mins met but the magic 1500
-CPT Course complete
-Written complete

My plan is to wait. I am afraid to get screened by HR submitting now since I don't have unrestricted ATP mins met. And if I do put my civ logbook numbers in, it could get a little weird if I get a call sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, knock out:
-CFI mil comp test +rating (since I'd never pass an 8 hour CFI oral exam)
-ATP check ride
-Military FCF upgrade and SEFE upgrade
-EC prep
-Far rocks = red tie (already have a blue suit...boom)

I know a lot of this is subjective, but the last thing I want to do is burn a bridge with the company by rushing it. I know guys who have used their civilian log numbers like this with success, but I don't want it to be perceived as sketchy.

Thanks for any input!

Agree with this entirely. Back in the late 80's through the 90's, it was the outlier guy or gal that went through Riddle, UND or FSI. The vast majority of the industry was the 10-20 airplane Mom n Pop. Lots of cheap aircraft built in the late 70's that were used, but just getting broken in at 6,000 hours. Every once in a while you got a MnP that got a bit too big and flamed out spectacularly (Bolivar comes to mind).

Those airplanes are now in the 14,000 hour category and are getting used up through attrition. GA dried up in the mid 80s and so there's nothing to replace them. Prices are in orbit. Not a good set up for continued success.

Yep. Someone might be able to capture some savings by using LSA's for some of it I guess, but GA has gone nuts with pricing. Some of today's costs are tied up in avionics, even for entry level planes. The flight school hook of "all glass" training for everything is just silly. It doesn't matter and no one cares if you had it on your first solo or cross country. Aviat even tried to help out by doing a C-152 "good as new" rebuild that amortized over all its costs was around $65/hr wet but no one was interested.

The good news is there is a gigantic relief valve available to the industry with the flip of a switch; drop the college requirement. While this has been a heated debate among pilots for a long time, there's no getting around the ease of instantly shaving off one or two hundred grand as a barrier to entry with a single memo. It will have to happen at some point, as the flight training part ain't getting any cheaper.

The really funny thing is watching the airlines squirm over pilots, panic and throw money at the bottom end with bonuses, referrals, flows and all that, yet continue to do nothing about the actual supply other than partner with universities with medical school cost structures. Even DL bought high and sold low with the Delta Connection Academy. They could have bought it back for a tiny fraction of the stonk burnbacks. It might even make more sense than a refinery.

If you’re spending $100-200k on college you’re doing it wrong, or at Riddle (also wrong).