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Old 02-03-2022 | 11:28 AM
  #681  
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Originally Posted by interceptorpilo
OK by that logic why would they even do a contract in 2023? Why not 2024? Or 2525? Or never?
because they have to show some progress, so that it at least look like they are trying....I am an outlier, and my GAS factor is approaching nil, if they keep doing nothing, they pizz of more and more pilots, and more start doing less, and then things go down hill from there. That’s the only reason I think the company actually wants to show progress, or at least have some sort of plausible deniability...so they don’t **** off the middle of the road guys.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by p3flteng
because they have to show some progress, so that it at least look like they are trying....I am an outlier, and my GAS factor is approaching nil, if they keep doing nothing, they pizz of more and more pilots, and more start doing less, and then things go down hill from there. That’s the only reason I think the company actually wants to show progress, or at least have some sort of plausible deniability...so they don’t **** off the middle of the road guys.
I’ve seen more wheelchair pax than ever before get left waiting for pushers. People are truly fed up with solving the failures of others…the GAS factor has plummeted for almost everyone. That being said, every time JL says thanks spirits soar and all is well again, amiright?

After this pandemic and all the associated Tom foolery, I’m honestly not even certain a nice contract will put springs in steps anymore. A poor one could really put us into a tailspin.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bugman61
I agree with both of you. I was just pointing out the huge logical flaw in the claims that a quick deal is likely or even possible. Management and Labor's desires for this deal are diametrically opposed WRT staffing and scheduling. There is no win/win solution that solves both parties' needs. So there is no incentive that would bring any sort of quick deal. Get comfortable this is going to take a while.
I agree this will take a while. Delta has underestimated the cost of the anti-pilot, anti-union behavior over the last 18 months. It will take time for management to realize what it will cost to get us back. We are not the same backpack wearing pilot group they started with two years ago.

The massive self-inflicted inefficiencies gave lots of pilots time to get comfortable at home. I don't see us falling over ourselves to fix another summer staffing problem. This is the year where GAS factor begins having a measurable negative impact on NPS. At the current rate our customer service and engagement levels will start making AA look good.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 12:29 PM
  #684  
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Originally Posted by Trip7
Disagree completely. Delta will want to get this deal done ASAP. They have a critical staffing situation on their hands. Moreover, they have critically understaffed SLIs and LCPs and desperately need to increase the pay. Furthermore, the Regionals are getting emptied and will need to do something to firm up that operation, either stable Endeavor to the Delta list or order more 220s, 73s, 320s and shrink the regionals down to the bare minimum. Overall I believe with conviction that we have the strongest leverage in the history of the business.



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24 years and 3 airlines and I’ve never seen a contract on time or early. The closest we came was TA1 and it was a joke. All you TVMs better get on board with an escalator clause.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Xray678
the days of us thinking we should give up something in negotiations should be over.
They are.

….extra chars.

Last edited by notEnuf; 02-03-2022 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 12:50 PM
  #686  
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Originally Posted by Crown
Trip, I would love to agree with you, and for awhile I believed what you said. But given that the last meeting came out with 0 TA's, and the company apparently wants concessions on deadheads? I think we're in for a long fight.
We reopened negotiations on 18 Jan. Our contracts are negotiated via a exchange of term sheets. I doubt either side had any expectations of TA’s on any section in two weeks. I suspect you think that we sit down at a big table and bang our fists and make demands and the company does the same. The process does not work anything like that. We give them a term sheet for a part of the contract. They normally would give us one also. In a week or so there might be some requests for clarifications. Our professional negotiators review everything with our pilot negotiators. In another week or so new proposals would be exchanged based on the original request.
In terms of timing keep in mind that rather than focusing on key areas of the contract we elected to basically negotiate and rewrite the entire contract. That takes time. Even with exceptional progress relative to the norm I doubt a contract could be completed before summer.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
We reopened negotiations on 18 Jan. Our contracts are negotiated via a exchange of term sheets. I doubt either side had any expectations of TA’s on any section in two weeks. I suspect you think that we sit down at a big table and bang our fists and make demands and the company does the same. The process does not work anything like that. We give them a term sheet for a part of the contract. They normally would give us one also. In a week or so there might be some requests for clarifications. Our professional negotiators review everything with our pilot negotiators. In another week or so new proposals would be exchanged based on the original request.
In terms of timing keep in mind that rather than focusing on key areas of the contract we elected to basically negotiate and rewrite the entire contract. That takes time. Even with exceptional progress relative to the norm I doubt a contract could be completed before summer.
But with the mediator “zooming” in, shouldn’t things go so much faster? There is no real mediation oversight yet and won’t be for some time. Keep calm …and slack on. To create a deal you have to create a need. Minimal effort for maximum return, if I could find a lower gear I’d be in it. These 4 and 5 day domestic trips every week without any ability to amend a schedule have worn me out.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 01:33 PM
  #688  
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Excellent podcast episode today from the MEC with an update on negotiations.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Python1287
Excellent podcast episode today from the MEC with an update on negotiations.
where can I find that? I am logged into ALPA and have looked on the DALMEC site with no luck...
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Old 02-03-2022 | 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bugman61
That cycle is long gone. We will get a 3-4 year deal and be back in negotiations in 2026 at the earliest.
I say they sign a four-year contract in 2023. That will mean they have completely skipped a contract and that is surely something they will pat themselves on the back over. Furthermore, when they do honestly come to the table after C23, it won't be until 2029, two years after the amendable date- which is pretty typical. That will mean that THIS contract is going to represent everything from 2019 all the way until 2029. I wish everyone would accept that this contract cycle is going to represent nearly a decade. Once we accept that, then we need to start thinking about minimum gains over such a period. Even at 4% a year, well under even official inflation data, that would be a 40% pay raise for this contract. An 18% raise from C19 until they bring a checkbook at the end of C23 is just a joke, might as well start a second career to hedge inflation.

Good homes with good schools near our hubs are already well north of a million. I cannot imagine what they will cost 5 to 6 years from now.
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