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Old 02-03-2022 | 08:20 AM
  #671  
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Originally Posted by Gunfighter
This negotiation requires a paradigm shift. We aren't "unlocking value" by providing concessions in one area to achieve gains in another. We are literally sitting at the table asking for improvements in everything. Buying pilot labor is similar to buying a car right now. Have you tried buying a car lately?
not really an apt comparison. There isn’t another buyer later in the day for pilot labor
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Old 02-03-2022 | 08:23 AM
  #672  
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Originally Posted by p3flteng
I tell you what I have given up during negotiations: greeting passengers at the door, making those welcome aboard PA’s from 1st class, taking a walk down stairs to get that stroller, and yes, leaving my comfy armchair on one of my cherished days off to help the company fix their own staffing crisis they created.
(well truthfully I didn’t really pick up anyways…)
It's difficult to measure, but I suspect many of the inefficiencies the company is experiencing have a great deal to do with a low GAS factor. I put more effort into swapping into higher time trips for covid shots than I put into GS. My new favorite pastime is ignoring IA calls. I left an old GS request because it was easier to ignore ARCOS for a couple days rather than delete the GS request. I've begun to explore other areas to improve QOL within the current contract and working environment.

If you are trying to drop a trip on black reserve days and are also planning on getting a covid shot, why not combine the two events? Save your APD and use the booster shot to drop your trip. I know we don't get paid for the drop like was previously offered, but if you were willing to drop it without pay you still saved an APD. Appointments are rapidly filling up for Friday the 11th, 48 hours before kickoff.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by OOfff
not really an apt comparison. There isn’t another buyer later in the day for pilot labor
There isn’t another car for the company to buy either. Does the company want a well taken care of,low mileage vehicle for market value or a beat up, tired, clapped out car at 2016 costs? Because those are their two choices.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Xray678
the days of us thinking we should give up something in negotiations should be over.
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
This negotiation requires a paradigm shift. We aren't "unlocking value" by providing concessions in one area to achieve gains in another. We are literally sitting at the table asking for improvements in everything. Buying pilot labor is similar to buying a car right now. Have you tried buying a car lately?

I agree with both of you. I was just pointing out the huge logical flaw in the claims that a quick deal is likely or even possible. Management and Labor's desires for this deal are diametrically opposed WRT staffing and scheduling. There is no win/win solution that solves both parties' needs. So there is no incentive that would bring any sort of quick deal. Get comfortable this is going to take a while.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 09:31 AM
  #675  
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Originally Posted by Trip7
Disagree completely. Delta will want to get this deal done ASAP. They have a critical staffing situation on their hands. Moreover, they have critically understaffed SLIs and LCPs and desperately need to increase the pay. Furthermore, the Regionals are getting emptied and will need to do something to firm up that operation, either stable Endeavor to the Delta list or order more 220s, 73s, 320s and shrink the regionals down to the bare minimum. Overall I believe with conviction that we have the strongest leverage in the history of the business.
Trip, I would love to agree with you, and for awhile I believed what you said. But given that the last meeting came out with 0 TA's, and the company apparently wants concessions on deadheads? I think we're in for a long fight.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Crown
Trip, I would love to agree with you, and for awhile I believed what you said. But given that the last meeting came out with 0 TA's, and the company apparently wants concessions on deadheads? I think we're in for a long fight.
Corporations want projected predictably. It will be a tough negotiation, as always, with one side asking for the sky and the other offering dirt. But I think there will be a deal sooner rather than later. The mediator is involved and that will speed things up. Remember, the company asked for mediation two years ago for a reason: they want to move things along and want to be able to project predictability to shareholders.
JMHO

Now if Russia invades Ukraine and there are crippling sanctions that induce a worldwide recession … better get used to no new contract. Who was it that said the airlines would never lose money again?
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Old 02-03-2022 | 11:04 AM
  #677  
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Originally Posted by ERflyer
Corporations want projected predictably. It will be a tough negotiation, as always, with one side asking for the sky and the other offering dirt. But I think there will be a deal sooner rather than later. The mediator is involved and that will speed things up. Remember, the company asked for mediation two years ago for a reason: they want to move things along and want to be able to project predictability to shareholders.
JMHO

Now if Russia invades Ukraine and there are crippling sanctions that induce a worldwide recession … better get used to no new contract. Who was it that said the airlines would never lose money again?
The company has predictably right now, it’s called the contract protected by the RLA. The only issue I see is the shortage of LCAs/SILs but the company is in the process of solving that issue with a few tricks. I’ve been here since 1989. Seen a lot. No way we get a TA before 2023. Company is relatively happy now, just got awarded #1 airline (air line?) by WSJ. Not at all a crisis need for a TA on the company’s end. Mediation effectively means NOTHING.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 11:09 AM
  #678  
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Originally Posted by blue vortex
The company has predictably right now, it’s called the contract protected by the RLA. The only issue I see is the shortage of LCAs/SILs but the company is in the process of solving that issue with a few tricks. I’ve been here since 1989. Seen a lot. No way we get a TA before 2023. Company is relatively happy now, just got awarded #1 airline (air line?) by WSJ. Not at all a crisis need for a TA on the company’s end. Mediation effectively means NOTHING.
I’ve been here since 1989 too. So that means what?
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Old 02-03-2022 | 11:16 AM
  #679  
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Originally Posted by blue vortex
Not at all a crisis need for a TA on the company’s end. Mediation effectively means NOTHING.
I think that depends on if you think the company actually needs all the pilots it’s trying to hire, or not.
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Old 02-03-2022 | 11:22 AM
  #680  
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Originally Posted by blue vortex
The company has predictably right now, it’s called the contract protected by the RLA. The only issue I see is the shortage of LCAs/SILs but the company is in the process of solving that issue with a few tricks. I’ve been here since 1989. Seen a lot. No way we get a TA before 2023. Company is relatively happy now, just got awarded #1 airline (air line?) by WSJ. Not at all a crisis need for a TA on the company’s end. Mediation effectively means NOTHING.
OK by that logic why would they even do a contract in 2023? Why not 2024? Or 2525? Or never?
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