Contract 2022
01-30-2022 | 04:21 PM
#572
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,920
Likes: 116
They must have someone on the fourth floor feeding some of our posters their rebuttals. What a waste of time.
01-30-2022 | 04:28 PM
#573
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 244
Likes: 7
Its weird how, the ONLY way management holds down costs, is if we get in a big damn hurry. God forbid the airline recover, and we'd be negotiating in a profitable airline.
They must have someone on the fourth floor feeding some of our posters their rebuttals. What a waste of time.
They must have someone on the fourth floor feeding some of our posters their rebuttals. What a waste of time.
01-30-2022 | 04:34 PM
#575
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 330
No, these guys are out to lunch. Spirit struck a while ago, 2010 if my google fu is good, mesaba was allowed to strike (they elected to be locked in and paid because of a mangement screwup) and that was during Bush years.
The process will be easier with Biden and trump appointing labor friendly NMB board members. But this is the RLA. There is no TV-like drama where you slam your hand on a table and scream "we're going to strike." The closest to a nuke option is, after 2 years of negotiation (no covid) the NMB agrees labor is being reasonable and management is convinced of something mind numbingly stupid like "revenue neutral". Then a 30day countdown (where everyone gets REAL) That concludes with a deal, a strike, or union may continue in good faith negotiations. Both sides of the table are coached up from mediators in an attempt to push the ball forward during mediation
Right now the company isnt posting profits. Business travelers arent back. We need to drag our feet a little and the economy needs to recover.
Its extremely important the pilots understand we have to be professional. Obviously we want a deal, obviously we want a deal with 2019 numbers that dont exist right now. Obviously managment wants to rush through negotiation while they are spinning their wheels finacially. Thus why you see some posters on here who speak like managers take this opportunity to pretend a deal now is better than to wait.
The nmb straddles us, but the nmb is committed to pattern bargaining (slow upward spiral) and not to grand slams.
The process will be easier with Biden and trump appointing labor friendly NMB board members. But this is the RLA. There is no TV-like drama where you slam your hand on a table and scream "we're going to strike." The closest to a nuke option is, after 2 years of negotiation (no covid) the NMB agrees labor is being reasonable and management is convinced of something mind numbingly stupid like "revenue neutral". Then a 30day countdown (where everyone gets REAL) That concludes with a deal, a strike, or union may continue in good faith negotiations. Both sides of the table are coached up from mediators in an attempt to push the ball forward during mediation
Right now the company isnt posting profits. Business travelers arent back. We need to drag our feet a little and the economy needs to recover.
Its extremely important the pilots understand we have to be professional. Obviously we want a deal, obviously we want a deal with 2019 numbers that dont exist right now. Obviously managment wants to rush through negotiation while they are spinning their wheels finacially. Thus why you see some posters on here who speak like managers take this opportunity to pretend a deal now is better than to wait.
The nmb straddles us, but the nmb is committed to pattern bargaining (slow upward spiral) and not to grand slams.
01-30-2022 | 05:01 PM
#576
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,920
Likes: 116
Yeah man, me (and others) are good at nuts and bolts type discussions although i sometimes use one word when i mean the other. People on here will keep you in line when your off on a word or a process.
Remember, what we are saying as a union is we want raises. People who work get raises. So that ask isnt crazy. We would like to grab the best of EVERYone elses contract too. We probably cant get that too. One ask we want from, say american, might work against another part of our contract so theres reasons we dont want every single thing. Then we add some extra so we can come down a bit.
So that gets us started. But as you negotiate youll see the company costing come back and that kinda shows you where they value things and where they dont. Assuming you trust yourself, you push the areas that pilot like that dont cost much to the company.
As we find areas we agree with the company we start signing off sections. Then we wait until the end to talk scheduling and pay rates.
Give it about 2more.months of passinging proposals back and forth before the union can get an idea what the company will give on. My suspicion is nothing much because we have very little leverage right now.
The company will start posting profits and talk big in investor calls, so we use that against them at the table.
its going to be a slow process.
Remember, what we are saying as a union is we want raises. People who work get raises. So that ask isnt crazy. We would like to grab the best of EVERYone elses contract too. We probably cant get that too. One ask we want from, say american, might work against another part of our contract so theres reasons we dont want every single thing. Then we add some extra so we can come down a bit.
So that gets us started. But as you negotiate youll see the company costing come back and that kinda shows you where they value things and where they dont. Assuming you trust yourself, you push the areas that pilot like that dont cost much to the company.
As we find areas we agree with the company we start signing off sections. Then we wait until the end to talk scheduling and pay rates.
Give it about 2more.months of passinging proposals back and forth before the union can get an idea what the company will give on. My suspicion is nothing much because we have very little leverage right now.
The company will start posting profits and talk big in investor calls, so we use that against them at the table.
its going to be a slow process.
01-30-2022 | 05:09 PM
#577
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,884
Likes: 199
Yeah man, me (and others) are good at nuts and bolts type discussions although i sometimes use one word when i mean the other. People on here will keep you in line when your off on a word or a process.
Remember, what we are saying as a union is we want raises. People who work get raises. So that ask isnt crazy. We would like to grab the best of EVERYone elses contract too. We probably cant get that too. One ask we want from, say american, might work against another part of our contract so theres reasons we dont want every single thing. Then we add some extra so we can come down a bit.
So that gets us started. But as you negotiate youll see the company costing come back and that kinda shows you where they value things and where they dont. Assuming you trust yourself, you push the areas that pilot like that dont cost much to the company.
As we find areas we agree with the company we start signing off sections. Then we wait until the end to talk scheduling and pay rates.
Give it about 2more.months of passinging proposals back and forth before the union can get an idea what the company will give on. My suspicion is nothing much because we have very little leverage right now.
The company will start posting profits and talk big in investor calls, so we use that against them at the table.
its going to be a slow process.
Remember, what we are saying as a union is we want raises. People who work get raises. So that ask isnt crazy. We would like to grab the best of EVERYone elses contract too. We probably cant get that too. One ask we want from, say american, might work against another part of our contract so theres reasons we dont want every single thing. Then we add some extra so we can come down a bit.
So that gets us started. But as you negotiate youll see the company costing come back and that kinda shows you where they value things and where they dont. Assuming you trust yourself, you push the areas that pilot like that dont cost much to the company.
As we find areas we agree with the company we start signing off sections. Then we wait until the end to talk scheduling and pay rates.
Give it about 2more.months of passinging proposals back and forth before the union can get an idea what the company will give on. My suspicion is nothing much because we have very little leverage right now.
The company will start posting profits and talk big in investor calls, so we use that against them at the table.
its going to be a slow process.
01-30-2022 | 05:15 PM
#578
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,884
Likes: 199
No, these guys are out to lunch. Spirit struck a while ago, 2010 if my google fu is good, mesaba was allowed to strike (they elected to be locked in and paid because of a mangement screwup) and that was during Bush years.
The process will be easier with Biden and trump appointing labor friendly NMB board members. But this is the RLA. There is no TV-like drama where you slam your hand on a table and scream "we're going to strike." The closest to a nuke option is, after 2 years of negotiation (no covid) the NMB agrees labor is being reasonable and management is convinced of something mind numbingly stupid like "revenue neutral". Then a 30day countdown (where everyone gets REAL) That concludes with a deal, a strike, or union may continue in good faith negotiations. Both sides of the table are coached up from mediators in an attempt to push the ball forward during mediation
Right now the company isnt posting profits. Business travelers arent back. We need to drag our feet a little and the economy needs to recover.
Its extremely important the pilots understand we have to be professional. Obviously we want a deal, obviously we want a deal with 2019 numbers that dont exist right now. Obviously managment wants to rush through negotiation while they are spinning their wheels finacially. Thus why you see some posters on here who speak like managers take this opportunity to pretend a deal now is better than to wait.
The nmb straddles us, but the nmb is committed to pattern bargaining (slow upward spiral) and not to grand slams.
The process will be easier with Biden and trump appointing labor friendly NMB board members. But this is the RLA. There is no TV-like drama where you slam your hand on a table and scream "we're going to strike." The closest to a nuke option is, after 2 years of negotiation (no covid) the NMB agrees labor is being reasonable and management is convinced of something mind numbingly stupid like "revenue neutral". Then a 30day countdown (where everyone gets REAL) That concludes with a deal, a strike, or union may continue in good faith negotiations. Both sides of the table are coached up from mediators in an attempt to push the ball forward during mediation
Right now the company isnt posting profits. Business travelers arent back. We need to drag our feet a little and the economy needs to recover.
Its extremely important the pilots understand we have to be professional. Obviously we want a deal, obviously we want a deal with 2019 numbers that dont exist right now. Obviously managment wants to rush through negotiation while they are spinning their wheels finacially. Thus why you see some posters on here who speak like managers take this opportunity to pretend a deal now is better than to wait.
The nmb straddles us, but the nmb is committed to pattern bargaining (slow upward spiral) and not to grand slams.
01-30-2022 | 06:41 PM
#579
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,920
Likes: 116
With all that said, the leverage is pilots engagement. If pilots think the company wants to let inflation erode our paychecks so we are negotiating for revenue neutral and happy to get it, theyre probably going to find a metric poop ton of pilots that wont pick up the phones and wont greenslip.
Ive already marked the company emails spam after the "things are great here" email. I stopped filling out the greenslip in pcs. My messaging to the company is apathy. If they arent going to be engaged they can fly the flipping planes themselves. Theyve got so many managment pilots on here feeding us garbage, i hope they saved up their energy for this summer.
They hired late. No profits. Have we hired 200 a month yet? They think we will just greenslip up the rest of the year and bail out their stock prices after telling about 2k of us they couldnt wait to furlough us.
Bold strategy, fly the effin plane yourself.
Ive already marked the company emails spam after the "things are great here" email. I stopped filling out the greenslip in pcs. My messaging to the company is apathy. If they arent going to be engaged they can fly the flipping planes themselves. Theyve got so many managment pilots on here feeding us garbage, i hope they saved up their energy for this summer.
They hired late. No profits. Have we hired 200 a month yet? They think we will just greenslip up the rest of the year and bail out their stock prices after telling about 2k of us they couldnt wait to furlough us.
Bold strategy, fly the effin plane yourself.
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