Google MIT airline data. The key number is the airlines cost per block hour. That number does not include profit sharing. Not sure how the NMB would account for that if at all.

 

I’ve heard many people say things to the effect of “the NMB would never release the pilots which could allow them to strike” due to the interruption to commerce. Is there any truth to this, or is this dramatic? If it is true, then aren’t legacy airline pilots screwed in the future in general, since any of those pilot groups striking would interfere with commerce too much (and thus wouldn’t be allowed to strike)? Sorry for the naive questions; I’m relatively new to this.

 

when was the last time a legacy/major airline pilot group (that was of significant size at the time) was allowed to strike? When was the last time any US pax airline was allowed to strike?

Numerous airlines have endured years of drawn out negotiations (before Covid) with absolutely no relief from the NMB over the past ~20 years (only pax hauler I know of that was allowed to strike in that time was NK in 2009 when they had like 300 pilots)

data suggests you heard correctly

 

OK, what specifically are you saying? Because statistics can be made to say anything you want. If you work for a poorly run airline then your cost per block hour is very high no matter how good your pilot group is and how hard they work. So the cost per block hour has very little to do with how your pilots are compensated or how they should be compensated, which is kind of the point of this thread.

 

So there is no leverage, no recourse, no nothing? Makes me wonder what the point of all this is, if there’s no “nuclear option” to hold the company’s feet to the fire (or any non-nuclear option) for that matter.

 

RLA seems to have been taken to mean we are never allowed to self help.

One thing we do have going for us right now is we need pilots and at the moment they are in short supply.

 

True however I doubt MIT tries to manipulate the data in Delta’s favor. If you look at the Delta specific sections the numbers tend to track quite well with the historical ups and downs of our contracts. Regardless the ALPA E&FA team is extremely well respected by the NMB and I suspect accurate numbers will be used in any comparisons. There are variables that might or might not come into play depending on the whims of the arbitrator. As a example the company is going to want low cost carriers included in the comparisons. We are going to want FedEx and UPS but not Atlas ect… Fleet makeup can make a difference and we could certainly argue our multiple fleets drive up costs. You could also try and pull in a comparison of revenue per pilot which would favor us with the higher revenue generation Delta has had historically. The company would probably counter that by wanting profit sharing included. In the end it’s complicated and you want smart people who understand the realities of the process to represent you.

 

In 1998 Clinton stopped the American airlines pilot strike after just a few minutes with a PEB. Later that year Northwest went on strike for about 13 days. While Clinton and his cabinet were involved in the negotiations to end the Northwest strike, obviously they felt that NW wasn’t large enough to warrant a PEB.

Nowadays who knows —probably doubtful a PEB could be avoided. However, believe me, the process leading up to a PEB or a strike for that matter sure does get the public’s and media’s attention.

 

If the company is making irrational demands the arbitrator can and should release us to strike. Labor unrest can effect bookings and stock price. In the end however the process always seems to drive a industry standard solution.

 

No, these guys are out to lunch. Spirit struck a while ago, 2010 if my google fu is good, mesaba was allowed to strike (they elected to be locked in and paid because of a mangement screwup) and that was during Bush years.

The process will be easier with Biden and trump appointing labor friendly NMB board members. But this is the RLA. There is no TV-like drama where you slam your hand on a table and scream "we're going to strike." The closest to a nuke option is, after 2 years of negotiation (no covid) the NMB agrees labor is being reasonable and management is convinced of something mind numbingly stupid like "revenue neutral". Then a 30day countdown (where everyone gets REAL) That concludes with a deal, a strike, or union may continue in good faith negotiations. Both sides of the table are coached up from mediators in an attempt to push the ball forward during mediation

Right now the company isnt posting profits. Business travelers arent back. We need to drag our feet a little and the economy needs to recover.

Its extremely important the pilots understand we have to be professional. Obviously we want a deal, obviously we want a deal with 2019 numbers that dont exist right now. Obviously managment wants to rush through negotiation while they are spinning their wheels finacially. Thus why you see some posters on here who speak like managers take this opportunity to pretend a deal now is better than to wait.

The nmb straddles us, but the nmb is committed to pattern bargaining (slow upward spiral) and not to grand slams.