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Gone Flying 03-11-2022 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by Vsop (Post 3387241)
RSV pilots could technically set the brake and still have a RAP with further intention of flight.

the regional I worked for would routinely put :15-30 minutes of airport reserve on your schedule after block in from a reserve assignment for this reason.

rambodog 03-11-2022 01:09 PM

Even if on reserve. Once the brake is set with no intention to fly, you must hav rest. Had this happen to me, gate agent met me after the flight. Called ALPA just to make sure I was correct and then called tracking. Flight removed from my rotation. Tracking even said “thank you for bringing this to our attention.”

CBreezy 03-11-2022 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by rambodog (Post 3387258)
Even if on reserve. Once the brake is set with no intention to fly, you must hav rest. Had this happen to me, gate agent met me after the flight. Called ALPA just to make sure I was correct and then called tracking. Flight removed from my rotation. Tracking even said “thank you for bringing this to our attention.”

Just so we are clear, this is not what the law says. It is how ALPA and DAL have agreed to interpret it

rambodog 03-11-2022 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3387266)
Just so we are clear, this is not what the law says. It is how ALPA and DAL have agreed to interpret it

Cool. But this being a Delta forum about Delta flying, the information I posted is what is pertinent to Delta pilots.

neodd 03-11-2022 01:35 PM

This is the exact verbiage of the law.

Flight duty period (FDP) means a period that begins when a flightcrew member is required to report for duty with the intention of conducting a flight, a series of flights, or positioning or ferrying flights, and ends when the aircraft is parked after the last flight and there is no intention for further aircraft movement by the same flightcrew member.

Seems pretty clear. Sure we might have agreed to parking brake set as the definitive point of “parked”. But if people outside the airplane (gate agent) are talking to you, you’re well passed being parked.

Vsop 03-11-2022 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by neodd (Post 3387273)
This is the exact verbiage of the law.

Flight duty period (FDP) means a period that begins when a flightcrew member is required to report for duty with the intention of conducting a flight, a series of flights, or positioning or ferrying flights, and ends when the aircraft is parked after the last flight and there is no intention for further aircraft movement by the same flightcrew member.

Seems pretty clear. Sure we might have agreed to parking brake set as the definitive point of “parked”. But if people outside the airplane (gate agent) are talking to you, you’re well passed being parked.

As the regs age they get legal interpretations. ALPA has them published here:
ALPA 117 interpretations
this is #13
FDP Holdover and Additional Flying Assignments; Standby Duty After Completion of Assigned Flying - FAR 117.25 - A carrier may keep a pilot on an FDP under Part 117 after block in on the last scheduled flight (if the pilot has FDP left). The additional standby time counts toward cumulative FDP limits. The rest requirement of 117.25(e)(10 hours) is not triggered until the FDP is terminated and a new FDP or reserve is contemplated.

neodd 03-11-2022 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Vsop (Post 3387275)
As the regs age they get legal interpretations. ALPA has them published here:
ALPA 117 interpretations
this is #13
FDP Holdover and Additional Flying Assignments; Standby Duty After Completion of Assigned Flying - FAR 117.25 - A carrier may keep a pilot on an FDP under Part 117 after block in on the last scheduled flight (if the pilot has FDP left). The additional standby time counts toward cumulative FDP limits. The rest requirement of 117.25(e)(10 hours) is not triggered until the FDP is terminated and a new FDP or reserve is contemplated.

That sounds like they have the option to keep you on the hook. How is a pilot notified of that option being exercised? “A carrier may…”

CBreezy 03-11-2022 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by neodd (Post 3387280)
That sounds like they have the option to keep you on the hook. How is a pilot notified of that option being exercised? “A carrier may…”

May vs will or shall. It just means the clock only stops when you are affirmatively put to rest, assigned new flying or the clock runs out.

neodd 03-11-2022 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 3387281)
May vs will or shall. It just means the clock only stops when you are affirmatively put to rest, assigned new flying or the clock runs out.

Gotcha. Again, that’s the legal interpretation of 117 but the DAL PWA says park brake set ends the duty day, correct?

Vsop 03-11-2022 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by neodd (Post 3387280)
That sounds like they have the option to keep you on the hook. How is a pilot notified of that option being exercised? “A carrier may…”

they have to notify the pilot prior to the end of the FDP. Notifications are normally two way recorded voice, but they can be ACARS or a company agent. But that notification must come prior to exiting the FDP..


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