MEC Brief: Operating At Red Line, Again
03-20-2022 | 05:28 AM
#321
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 15
From: Petting Zoo
SLIs have a job which is different but are still line pilots. They are paid while training for that job. They have more schedule control that line pilots of the same seniority. They train to a minimum standard and get the job done. The footprint and timeline which they have no control over is the issue and that is a Delta problem. I had a different instructor for every module. Each module I had to learn their technique for a day. The pilots largely teach themselves and the instructor is there to read power points aloud, facilitate the operation of the FTD or sim, and give pointers. This isn't their fault, its the system. I have learned more real world operational stuff on line from them when I fly with them than is ever "taught." I rarely fly with them unless its an instructor slip trip. That's not the way it's supposed to be. Back to compensation, why do they deserve more than a regular pilot? Granted we all deserve more, I'm talking about a union membership and a PWA provision. I'm just looking for rationale and a don't care about the individuals choice.
I don't think SLI/LCA pay should be "fixed" prior to anyone else, I agree with the no LOA argument.
I dont think I "deserve" any more than anyone else, but I took the job based on the PWA pay.
Not sure I follow the ALV reference. I work 17 days a month at 5 hours a day. I'd much prefer 15-16 days at 5.25 hours per.
I get 350 pay for teaching/operating a NB. I get that because I can hold it. If I wasn't at this pay rate I'd leave and fly as a NB A.
What is the compensation complaint? I make more teaching this airplane as an FO than I would flying it as a line FO (hourly rate). Though the way manning has been, I'd probably do just fine with GS.
03-20-2022 | 05:46 AM
#323
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,409
Likes: 882
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
I have massively less schedule control as an SLI than when on the line. I get four golden days per month. Unless they need to violate them
I don't think SLI/LCA pay should be "fixed" prior to anyone else, I agree with the no LOA argument.
I dont think I "deserve" any more than anyone else, but I took the job based on the PWA pay.
Not sure I follow the ALV reference. I work 17 days a month at 5 hours a day. I'd much prefer 15-16 days at 5.25 hours per.
I get 350 pay for teaching/operating a NB. I get that because I can hold it. If I wasn't at this pay rate I'd leave and fly as a NB A.
What is the compensation complaint? I make more teaching this airplane as an FO than I would flying it as a line FO (hourly rate). Though the way manning has been, I'd probably do just fine with GS.
I don't think SLI/LCA pay should be "fixed" prior to anyone else, I agree with the no LOA argument.
I dont think I "deserve" any more than anyone else, but I took the job based on the PWA pay.
Not sure I follow the ALV reference. I work 17 days a month at 5 hours a day. I'd much prefer 15-16 days at 5.25 hours per.
I get 350 pay for teaching/operating a NB. I get that because I can hold it. If I wasn't at this pay rate I'd leave and fly as a NB A.
What is the compensation complaint? I make more teaching this airplane as an FO than I would flying it as a line FO (hourly rate). Though the way manning has been, I'd probably do just fine with GS.
03-20-2022 | 05:47 AM
#324
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,257
Likes: 292
How many redeyes are going to do? I can hold a much higher position than I'm in but don't get paid for that hypothetical. And what is the greatest risk you are assuming? FAA sanction, loss of certificate, real aircraft damage, harm to human life, weather, etc. I think you are completely justified in the position you have and the pay because it is part of the PWA. I don't however think it should be more than the position you are really in as a Seniority List pilot. I wish I had done before 1 and no legal operational liability. I don't do that job because of person choice, the commute and the system. For those who do, great. but why do they get paid more than the line position they would otherwise be doing? ALV is a bench mark, bidding a line for pay purposes only work for me as a pay structure. Again, no rationale why the position should pay XXX. Your paid per the PWA, which I accept but when the new PWA is inked you should get what I get. Tell me why not.
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03-20-2022 | 05:55 AM
#325
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,409
Likes: 882
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
03-20-2022 | 06:13 AM
#326
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 806
Likes: 6
Sounds like you could meet your pay goals and increase your quality of life by applying to be an SLI. The hiring window is open.
03-20-2022 | 06:16 AM
#327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 15
From: Petting Zoo
We are in the realm of
opinion, and I don't have one
If they took away the "paid what you can hold," I'd leave the job. And I'd get paid what I would hold, which would be higher than my current seat.
From a company POV, they'd have serious trouble having SLIs if there was no pay incentive, particularly on NB fleets. As a pilot, I think we are better served with line instructors than DPS. You may have other feelings. I'm sure the company would love to get rid of all line pilot instructors. Huge cost savings
I'll let you have the last word
opinion, and I don't have one
If they took away the "paid what you can hold," I'd leave the job. And I'd get paid what I would hold, which would be higher than my current seat.
From a company POV, they'd have serious trouble having SLIs if there was no pay incentive, particularly on NB fleets. As a pilot, I think we are better served with line instructors than DPS. You may have other feelings. I'm sure the company would love to get rid of all line pilot instructors. Huge cost savings
I'll let you have the last word
03-20-2022 | 06:24 AM
#330
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,381
Likes: 1,424
How many redeyes are you going to do? I can hold a much higher position than I'm in but don't get paid for that hypothetical. And what is the greatest risk you are assuming? FAA sanction, loss of certificate, real aircraft damage, harm to human life, weather, etc. I think you are completely justified in the position you have and the pay because it is part of the PWA. I don't however think it should be more than the position you are really in as a Seniority List pilot. I wish I had "done before 1" (your QOL improvement without amendment to the PWA) and no legal operational liability. I don't do that job because of person choice, the commute and the system. For those who do, great, but what justifies getting paid more than the line position they would otherwise be doing? ALV is a bench mark, bidding a line for pay purposes only works for me as a pay structure. Again, no rationale why the position should pay XXX. You're paid per the PWA, which I accept but when the new PWA is inked you should get what I get. Tell me why not.
In part, it's a supply and demand issue. The same thing for LCA's. You have to be able to attract the highest quality people in enough numbers. Surely you understand why we need the right people for these jobs. When the company is sending out broadcast pleas for applications, to include new captains immediately after OE for LCA, you know you have a problem. A lot of folks won't do the job because, frankly, it's just not worth it. And it takes many months to grow just one new SLI, much less a PCP or DPE.
My understanding is that what has been discussed is increasing SLI pay to be what you can hold, not to exceed 717 A pay (currently limited to 350 B pay). And it's the COMPANY that is pushing this. I again ask, why do you think that is?
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