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Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2

Old 08-17-2023, 06:11 AM
  #2651  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Not all unicorns and rainbows. Read the latest MEC Chair email. They will violate the contract whenever it pleases them. We in-turn will grieve and then you get a penance for it 3 years down the road. Pay rates are something they can't eff with and that's why I have always been a large proponent. I have never been a fan of soft pay/benefits. Precisely for the examples we are seeing now and pointed out by the MEC Chair. Are junior folks in BES really seeing seniors grab holiday flying? My guess is no. I know I wouldn't. I bid those days off for a reason. Deadheads are not working out as planned many things are not. Again, the MEC Chair highlighted but a few of the items DALPA is witnessing management blatantly violating in our PWA. It seems you guys are going to spend more time doing quality control on your time cards than in the past. That's again why I am a big pay rate guy. No trickery there. I was a barely "yes" vote on C19, main reason was the soft pay items - I thought management would not uphold their end. Seems to be trending that way right now.
May as well not even have section 1, right? They just violate it anyways, and we have to expend union resources to track it.
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Old 08-17-2023, 07:20 AM
  #2652  
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1 View Post
The amount of people who were such strong and loud no voters on there who are now asking what EDP is blows my mind. How could they be so opinionated about the TA when they didn't even know about one of the best parts of it!?
I think you'll find in any PWA vote that there is a certain percentage that will always vote yes, and a certain percentage that will always vote no. Neither end of the bell curve will (most likely) perform due diligence, or any sort of diligence. Throw in there a number of single-item voters and that would most likely answer your question as to how some vocal pilots or otherwise don't know about some items in the PWA.

One could also say the same about the vocal yes voters: "how could they vote yes for [insert controversial item]?! It's one of the worst parts of it."

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Old 08-17-2023, 07:27 AM
  #2653  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Wow, gee that's just great. How about we banded NB to the 75 rate? How about we had added another $45/hour across the board to our rates (then adjusted up for inflation) Softpay requires work on your part. Rates do not. It will be a frustrating experience for you tracking down what you are owed for your work. Never been a soft pay fan. Especially with our management.
I am not sure how you can make this claim when the topic at hand is EDP pay, which is automated and shows up on the rotation and time card with no intervention required.

Iíll say it again- look at trips from pretty much any point in the last 3 years, then look at the September trips. There is a noticeable improvement. That doesnít mean there still arenít examples of a less than ideal duty day, but that sort of duty has been commonplace in recent memory, all for straight pay to boot.
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Old 08-17-2023, 07:29 AM
  #2654  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Not all unicorns and rainbows. Read the latest MEC Chair email. They will violate the contract whenever it pleases them. We in-turn will grieve and then you get a penance for it 3 years down the road. Pay rates are something they can't eff with and that's why I have always been a large proponent. I have never been a fan of soft pay/benefits. Precisely for the examples we are seeing now and pointed out by the MEC Chair. Are junior folks in BES really seeing seniors grab holiday flying? My guess is no. I know I wouldn't. I bid those days off for a reason. Deadheads are not working out as planned many things are not. Again, the MEC Chair highlighted but a few of the items DALPA is witnessing management blatantly violating in our PWA. It seems you guys are going to spend more time doing quality control on your time cards than in the past. That's again why I am a big pay rate guy. No trickery there. I was a barely "yes" vote on C19, main reason was the soft pay items - I thought management would not uphold their end. Seems to be trending that way right now.
Try this, make a list of the items implemented so far and count how many the company is honoring vs not honoring. It's important that we as a group hold them accountable for violations but to say that soft pay hasn't substantially increased our collective paychecks and that we should solely focus on pay rates is short sighted. All I can say is I'm glad our negotiators and polling data did not share your view.
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Old 08-17-2023, 10:27 AM
  #2655  
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Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
May as well not even have section 1, right? They just violate it anyways, and we have to expend union resources to track it.
Funny, where did I mention anything about scope? Pay is pay. Always has been. Its something you can sue to get. Scope goes direct to court. Your soft pay won't until there's enough for the "class action level" to merit a fine from a filed grievance(s). You're new, so I will forgive your ignorance of this management team. It hasn't changed here in decades. they run the same playbook decade after decade. The fact the MEC Chairman is "shocked" that management is blatantly violating the C19 PWA, it speaks volumes. The union can't track it all. They rely on YOU to do that. As full implementation comes on board you're going to be real busy bird dogging your soft pay. I wrote about this months ago. It was one of my concerns about C19. Despite my concerns regarding soft pay I still voted yes. Still some goodness for the majority of the group in C19, but soft pay, you're going to have to fight for what you are supposed to contractually get.
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Old 08-17-2023, 10:38 AM
  #2656  
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Originally Posted by First Break View Post
I am not sure how you can make this claim when the topic at hand is EDP pay, which is automated and shows up on the rotation and time card with no intervention required.

Iíll say it again- look at trips from pretty much any point in the last 3 years, then look at the September trips. There is a noticeable improvement. That doesnít mean there still arenít examples of a less than ideal duty day, but that sort of duty has been commonplace in recent memory, all for straight pay to boot.
Sorry I don't fly domestic so I don't have a reason to check out your trips. Int'l hasn't changed a whole lot. My indoc classmate is an NB A. He says where he's based not seeing a lot of improvement. 14% total commutability. Lots of august and september rotations are now going thru ATL whereas in the past they hardly ever touched it. He's not happy about that. The NE flying been paired back due this administration's lack of ability to staff ATC. So lots of trips are gone from the bid pack that he saw a year ago. He's gonna stay NB A since he's got not a whole lot of time left. Management will fix the issues with reroutes. They will violate the contract and DALPA will grieve it, but you're still gonna fly it. 27 months or more form now you'll get a penance of a settlement deposited in your bank account.

EDP is one of the few automated pay functions. Many others are done by hand. It's been published in memos. They're telling you it can take up to 14 days to receive based on the manual adjustments that have to be made. One example I'm hearing about is flying past 0159. Many are not getting the ADG for that. When inquiries are made, our pilots are being told its a manual adjustment and can take 14 days to show up. 14 days comes and goes and nothing. CPOs are aware and are trying to assist. What are the other automated functions available other than EDP that were not previously implemented for C19?
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Old 08-17-2023, 10:45 AM
  #2657  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Funny, where did I mention anything about scope? Pay is pay. Always has been. Its something you can sue to get. Scope goes direct to court. Your soft pay won't until there's enough for the "class action level" to merit a fine from a filed grievance(s). You're new, so I will forgive your ignorance of this management team. It hasn't changed here in decades. they run the same playbook decade after decade. The fact the MEC Chairman is "shocked" that management is blatantly violating the C19 PWA, it speaks volumes. The union can't track it all. They rely on YOU to do that. As full implementation comes on board you're going to be real busy bird dogging your soft pay. I wrote about this months ago. It was one of my concerns about C19. Despite my concerns regarding soft pay I still voted yes. Still some goodness for the majority of the group in C19, but soft pay, you're going to have to fight for what you are supposed to contractually get.
Soft pay rules netted a 330A last year over 800 hours of pay in a month via PB days. The company reportedly was displeased but we fall back on the parameters set by our contractual verbiage to determine whether or not that's allowed. The picture you're painting is as though all of our soft pay gains are eviscerated by the company's current 3 infractions. Any infraction is one too many and we should hold them accountable, but the type of mentality you're spreading of pay above all else is flawed. We conduct risk assessments when we make decisions both in and out of the flight deck, don't let the risk of the company misinterpreting the language paralyze you from making gains in all areas of the contract.
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Old 08-17-2023, 05:49 PM
  #2658  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Sorry I don't fly domestic so I don't have a reason to check out your trips. Int'l hasn't changed a whole lot. My indoc classmate is an NB A. He says where he's based not seeing a lot of improvement. 14% total commutability. Lots of august and september rotations are now going thru ATL whereas in the past they hardly ever touched it. He's not happy about that. The NE flying been paired back due this administration's lack of ability to staff ATC. So lots of trips are gone from the bid pack that he saw a year ago. He's gonna stay NB A since he's got not a whole lot of time left. Management will fix the issues with reroutes. They will violate the contract and DALPA will grieve it, but you're still gonna fly it. 27 months or more form now you'll get a penance of a settlement deposited in your bank account.

EDP is one of the few automated pay functions. Many others are done by hand. It's been published in memos. They're telling you it can take up to 14 days to receive based on the manual adjustments that have to be made. One example I'm hearing about is flying past 0159. Many are not getting the ADG for that. When inquiries are made, our pilots are being told its a manual adjustment and can take 14 days to show up. 14 days comes and goes and nothing. CPOs are aware and are trying to assist. What are the other automated functions available other than EDP that were not previously implemented for C19?
I get the point you're making, and it's certainly worth discussing, but it just seems like a defeatist attitude to say that ALL soft pay is bad because it's harder to enforce. Soft pay is a very important part of the contract and drives Co. behavior in important ways. I don't doubt anything you say about automated pay or grievances. But to just preemptively give up on soft pay that significantly increases our overall pay and/or improves our QOL because we might have some issues with implementation seems excessive.

I do agree that the simpler (within reason) the PWA can be the better, we, the average line pilot can verify that the rules are being followed.
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Old 08-17-2023, 06:43 PM
  #2659  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Sorry I don't fly domestic so I don't have a reason to check out your trips. Int'l hasn't changed a whole lot. My indoc classmate is an NB A. He says where he's based not seeing a lot of improvement. 14% total commutability. Lots of august and september rotations are now going thru ATL whereas in the past they hardly ever touched it. He's not happy about that. The NE flying been paired back due this administration's lack of ability to staff ATC. So lots of trips are gone from the bid pack that he saw a year ago. He's gonna stay NB A since he's got not a whole lot of time left. Management will fix the issues with reroutes. They will violate the contract and DALPA will grieve it, but you're still gonna fly it. 27 months or more form now you'll get a penance of a settlement deposited in your bank account.

EDP is one of the few automated pay functions. Many others are done by hand. It's been published in memos. They're telling you it can take up to 14 days to receive based on the manual adjustments that have to be made. One example I'm hearing about is flying past 0159. Many are not getting the ADG for that. When inquiries are made, our pilots are being told its a manual adjustment and can take 14 days to show up. 14 days comes and goes and nothing. CPOs are aware and are trying to assist. What are the other automated functions available other than EDP that were not previously implemented for C19?
I think you mean flying past 0000 when you mention the additional pay. And I think this function is automated. I was on a trip a few weeks ago that was scheduled to block out at 2317, and release at 2347. We had to fly through LGA on the last day and of course, were delayed and didnít block out until after midnight. The minute the delay appeared in MiCrew, the trip went from being worth 16 and change (3 day trip) to 18 and change, so Iím pretty sure itís automated in the system. If this isnít what youíre talking about, my apologies for the misunderstanding.
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Old 08-17-2023, 08:55 PM
  #2660  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo View Post
Funny, where did I mention anything about scope? Pay is pay. Always has been. Its something you can sue to get. Scope goes direct to court. Your soft pay won't until there's enough for the "class action level" to merit a fine from a filed grievance(s). You're new, so I will forgive your ignorance of this management team. It hasn't changed here in decades. they run the same playbook decade after decade. The fact the MEC Chairman is "shocked" that management is blatantly violating the C19 PWA, it speaks volumes. The union can't track it all. They rely on YOU to do that. As full implementation comes on board you're going to be real busy bird dogging your soft pay. I wrote about this months ago. It was one of my concerns about C19. Despite my concerns regarding soft pay I still voted yes. Still some goodness for the majority of the group in C19, but soft pay, you're going to have to fight for what you are supposed to contractually get.
All hail your seniority I guess? Congratulations on being senior to me, forgive me for possibly questioning you on your post referencing managementís willingness to violate our contract so we may as well only focus on pay rates. My mistake that when you referenced contract violations, you werenít talking about scope (even though they violate it), only soft pay (even though you talked about deadheads, which donít pay).

Personally, Iíll happily keep and hopefully add more soft pay functions, especially the ones that improve our schedules.

Enjoy your widebody oh senior sage.
Sincerely, ďnewĒ ďignorantĒ junior air mission.
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