Originally Posted by gloopy

I wasn't specifically talking about new hire "training pay" which as a concept needs to go away* but I was talking about giving all of us at least a paid, hard no-fly, week free and clear after our last flight on previous equipment to study/re-calibrate/dump and "decontaminate" from previous AC. That is extremely reasonable and still lets the company pocket most of the savings from when we had "real ground school".


United-Plus is the minimum for new hires and IMO it is 100% the responsibility of the union to push for that for our union brethren. The notion that we can pump our "good deals" while we "let them eat training pay" because its not our problem is just wrong. They might fix it. They might not. They might fix it outside the CBA and take it away when they see fit. What we have right now isn't right and its our obligation to fix it. And yes, even if "we have to pay for it" by shifting a small amount in our compensation growth during good times to do so.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Nope. It's up to the company to recruit. First year pay needs to go though.

Originally Posted by gloopy

Why does [concessionary] first year pay need to go, but training pay, which is even less, isn't our problem?

Pilots working under our contract shouldn't be cast aside for some novel theory that empty seats in indoc is leverage to fix our contractual shortcomings with zero "negotiating capital."

Originally Posted by notEnuf

If Delta can't recruit they will up or do away with training pay. 1st year pay is nothing more than traditional hazing of the rook. What other profession does this? Bringing 1st year pay up to PWA standard has greater effect. They are line qualified, dues paying members and you have to start somewhere. We should all get ponies too but that is right there with training pay on the priority scale. Here's a novel idea, pay all on site training at 5:15 a day with no carve outs, and reserve guarantee prorated for home study from day 1 at the rate of the awarded position.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

Point of order, Probationary pilots do not pay dues.

Originally Posted by Big E 757

He’s not even on property yet, and he’s already weary of your attitude and post history! 🤣🤣 I can’t wait to fly with you OpsCheck!

Originally Posted by Meme In Command

What could they fire a pilot for on probation that they couldn't do to a pilot not on probation? Playing devil's advocate, could I argue that someone that's been on property longer could be held to a higher standard than someone new still trying to learn their way around here?

Originally Posted by FangsF15

Point of order, Probationary pilots do not pay dues.

Originally Posted by myrkridia

It's not that they could or couldn't fire you for different reasons as a probationary pilot, it's that the union cannot protect your employment if the company decided to let you go. At least that is how is has been explained to me when talking about protections and representation on probation.

Originally Posted by Meme In Command

This makes me honestly wonder, what's stopping us from allowing new hires from paying dues and just affording them the same protections from day one? Who benefits from the current status of probationary pilots not receiving union protection?