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Part 91 and Low Time Jump pilots, crop dusting, and other Part 91 jobs

Co-pilot not rated in jet

Old 03-24-2013, 03:10 PM
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Default Co-pilot not rated in jet

Quick question... out of my area of knowledge.
Hawker jet needs to go on a trip this week.
Co-pilot cannot go.
If I'm not typed in the jet, can I legally occupy the right seat for the trip?
It's being flown Part 91 within the CONUS.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:15 PM
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Default Co-pilot not rated in jet

Yes. Look up SIC requirements under part 91. Without the SIC or better type you won't be able to go to a lot of international destinations.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:16 PM
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No, but you do need to meet the training requirements on type in FAR 61.55, including 3 take-off and landings, some OEI work and systems/procedures ground instruction. Not, just jump in and go.

GF
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:22 PM
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Oh boy another SIC-logging question. We specialize in those here. Rick, Wasp, and Noy are a few of our resident experts on this topic.

> Is it a single-pilot certified jet with the PIC single pilot-approved? Call out the type and model for best results.
> If it is a single-pilot certified airplane, does the PIC you are using have that particular endorsement on his type rating? Some jets can be had either or both ways. You need to ask (or look up) what status your captain is.
> Part 91 all legs, right? Part 135 is another animal.
> What does the insurance company say about it? Not the FAA law of course, but still important and often the most important thing. There may be a company- specific Part 91 OpSpec the insurance company requires.
> Is the CA an instructor of some sort?
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:03 PM
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Thanks very much.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Oh boy another SIC-logging question. We specialize in those here. Rick, Wasp, and Noy are a few of our resident experts on this topic.

> Is it a single-pilot certified jet with the PIC single pilot-approved? Call out the type and model for best results.
> If it is a single-pilot certified airplane, does the PIC you are using have that particular endorsement on his type rating? Some jets can be had either or both ways. You need to ask (or look up) what status your captain is.
> Part 91 all legs, right? Part 135 is another animal.
> What does the insurance company say about it? Not the FAA law of course, but still important and often the most important thing. There may be a company- specific Part 91 OpSpec the insurance company requires.
> Is the CA an instructor of some sort?
Not an SIC logging question...

It's a question about minimum qualifications to sit in the right seat for a non-type rated FO. OP stated aircraft type is a Hawker.



Presumably this trip has passengers or cargo onboard? (As opposed to flying empty to a MX facility for an inspection?)
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:22 PM
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All that has been said is good info; however with your apparent background, Etc. You might be suprised at how simple this might be accomplished, especially being part 91; it could simply involve the CP or owner, Etc. making a quick phone call to the insurance folks and possibly the Feds. Have them send a fax or some other legal form of correspondence and you could be good to go. Speaking from experience...

Additional... It would be sad if you were otherwise given the green light but were hung up over the civilian high altitude/pressurized aircraft endorsement...

Last edited by Yoda2; 03-24-2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: added additional info
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
No, but you do need to meet the training requirements on type in FAR 61.55, including 3 take-off and landings, some OEI work and systems/procedures ground instruction. Not, just jump in and go.

GF
Originally Posted by Yoda2 View Post
All that has been said is good info; however with your apparent background, Etc. You might be suprised at how simple this might be accomplished, especially being part 91; it could simply involve the CP or owner, Etc. making a quick phone call to the insurance folks and possibly the Feds. Have them send a fax or some other legal form of correspondence and you could be good to go. Speaking from experience...

Additional... It would be sad if you were otherwise given the green light but were hung up over the civilian high altitude/pressurized aircraft endorsement...
As galaxy flyer stated you have to meet the requirements of 61.55. That can be accomplished in a couple of hours, but carries with it the expense of operating the aircraft. Once accomplished you can have the training PIC write an endorsement and take it to the FISDO to get an SIC type on your certificate. The SIC type is NOT required for a CONUS flight however. Just a plus if you want it later on for international.

The second bolded part about a high altitude endorsement doesn't apply, as it is only required to act as PIC.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hemaybedid View Post
As galaxy flyer stated you have to meet the requirements of 61.55. That can be accomplished in a couple of hours, but carries with it the expense of operating the aircraft. Once accomplished you can have the training PIC write an endorsement and take it to the FISDO to get an SIC type on your certificate. The SIC type is NOT required for a CONUS flight however. Just a plus if you want it later on for international.

The second bolded part about a high altitude endorsement doesn't apply, as it is only required to act as PIC.
You are correct, I'm wiped out/need some sleep; shouldn't have chimed in when in this state...
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerJosh View Post
Not an SIC logging question...

It's a question about minimum qualifications to sit in the right seat for a non-type rated FO.
Come on, FO = SIC here. You can put your pet marmots in the right seat if no other pilot is required, but the question is who is qualified, and if they are qualified the next question should be are they necessary. That's SIC logging, bar none. We have been up and down about people logging time that isn't required to legally fly some airplane on the right side. Maybe Huggy doesn't care about claiming his hours, having flown U2s and all, but he should at least know if he is legal and required in this one. Sounds like if they had a regular guy they need one is this Hawker.

....OP stated aircraft type is a Hawker...
Ok, like which one? Some may be single-pilot certified. Are you sure none are?
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