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Old 01-28-2007, 08:27 PM   #1  
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Default Citation barrel roll (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsCOam4r4Q
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:36 PM   #2  
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I would have to say that technically that's an aileron roll.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:02 AM   #3  
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Pure stupidity! All you need to do is F* that up, end up in a split S over speed, and or over stress the airframe. Then you could end up like that starcheck crew, or worse pull the wings off, or the worst case do unseen damage to the wings and some other poor sap looses the wings because of you overstressed the airframe and didn't say anything! Not implying any one here is responsible of this BTW.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:19 AM   #4  
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RedGuy,

I was thinking the same thing. Sh*t like that really p*sses me off. There's absolutely no reason to be doing that in an Citation, even if you are capable of pulling it off. Unless that was done in an upset recovery course (and why would you be rolling during that type of training), there's no point in any maneuver like that in a transport aircraft.

These bozos might come out okay, but it has a strong potential to put excessive stresses on the plane that will hurt some other person that has no clue what happened previously.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:00 PM   #5  
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While I dont support their actions and would never encourage someone to do that it can be done safely without loading the aircraft anywhere near its stress limits. Most people do not have much aerobatic experience and do not understand what happens to an airplane in these "unusual" attitudes. The following is not an encouragement in any way nor am I saying that anyone should try it. Many will try it anyways and I will write it to keep them safer.

In the case of a simple aileron roll there are a few key things to keep in mind when trying to reduce loads on the aircraft. The first is speed. You want to start the manuever at a higher speed rather than lower. In an aircraft that rolls as slow as many transport aircraft the nose will drop a significant amount through the roll. Starting the roll at a higher airspeed will reduce this nose down attitude. The next part of the sequence is pulling the nose high before starting the roll. This will help to ensure you dont end the roll in a severe nose down attitude. In my opinion the pilots in this video should have brought the nose even another 10 degrees higher. The third is NEVER turn it into a split S. While performing a roll for the first time many people freeze up when inverted and make the decision to pull through a half loop to get the dirty side down. This is where you will overstress the aircraft. Keep the aileron over and roll to normal flight instead of pulling.

Once agian I am not an expert nor do I suggest you try any of this on your own or in an aircraft not designed to fly aerobatics. I am speaking from my aerobatic experience in aircraft designed for this purpose.
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Old 01-30-2007, 11:55 AM   #6  
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Ha, I will only get flamed for my response, but I'm not going to chicken out for it. I just enjoy the fact that there are pilots that for some reason video tape things that aren't legal, and probably thought it'd never get on the net. I'll be honest, I enjoyed the roll. To me, it looked more like a barrel roll, since the pitch rose and fell during the proper times in the roll. Doesn't look to me that they over-loaded the airframe at any time, or even close to that matter(I didn't see any wing flex, I watched it about 5 times trying to see it.) This is besides the point though.

I'm not for or against this. If you choose to do these extra-curricular activities, you best be aware of the consequences towards you and others that could fly the aircraft in the future. Look at Bob Hoover, one of the best damn sticks to demonstrate an airplanes ability!!! He did things with that Shrike that were amazing and beautiful. If he never stepped out of the box, we would've never seen them.

I'll just finish up with a good quote, "There's a time and a place for everything." Nuf Said
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:40 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewfflyer View Post
Ha, I will only get flamed for my response, but I'm not going to chicken out for it. I just enjoy the fact that there are pilots that for some reason video tape things that aren't legal, and probably thought it'd never get on the net. I'll be honest, I enjoyed the roll. To me, it looked more like a barrel roll, since the pitch rose and fell during the proper times in the roll. Doesn't look to me that they over-loaded the airframe at any time, or even close to that matter(I didn't see any wing flex, I watched it about 5 times trying to see it.) This is besides the point though.

I'm not for or against this. If you choose to do these extra-curricular activities, you best be aware of the consequences towards you and others that could fly the aircraft in the future. Look at Bob Hoover, one of the best damn sticks to demonstrate an airplanes ability!!! He did things with that Shrike that were amazing and beautiful. If he never stepped out of the box, we would've never seen them.

I'll just finish up with a good quote, "There's a time and a place for everything." Nuf Said
1. I'm willing to bet, Bob Hoover these guys ain't. Bob Hoover perfected his air show in a P-38, an airplane built to handle the stresses of making a mistake in aerobatics, before even trying it in the Shrike. I think Bob Hoover would probably beat the #$%^ out of these guys if he could find them.
2. Bob Hoover's Shrike was re-certified under Experimental-Airshow/Exhibition. I doubt very much that this Citation was re-certified. If not, unless some one knows somethings different, it is restricted from aerobatic maneuvers. Having exceeded it's limitations this airplane is no longer airworthy until it has been inspected. Even airplanes certified for some maneuvers, such as aerobatic 152s, MUST be loaded correctly to be operated as such. Exceeding these limitations even in an aerobatic aircraft means all bets are off... as some have found in 152s when spins have gone flat due to CG.
3. I doubt very much that the pilot owns this airplane. So he was screwing around with some else's property in a way the owner is probably not aware of. Unless this guy owns the airplane, he violated the trust put in him by the owner.
4. This video was of the successful barrel roll. I doubt they saved any of possible unsuccessful ones. If there were unsuccessful ones, would YOU want to fly the airplane? I would not... even with the successful one I saw.
5. Reason number 5 not to perform aerobatics in uncertified airplanes. http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id...11X12105&key=1
I'll finish up with a good quote. "There's a time and a place for everything." Doing aerobatics in an airplane not certified for it, especially one you do not own, is grossly irresponsible, immature, and hardly the kind of behavior I would want to emulate or condone as a professional pilot. Nuf said.
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:52 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
I'll finish up with a good quote. "There's a time and a place for everything." Doing aerobatics in an airplane not certified for it, especially one you do not own, is grossly irresponsible, immature, and hardly the kind of behavior I would want to emulate or condone as a professional pilot. Nuf said.
Pending on what your state of mind is, quoting my quote in such manner, you are actually in agreement with what I'm thinking. The Time is irrelevant, but the "place" is being in a proper aircraft.

This is why I love the internet, personality and perception of character are impossible to read. My first sentence says it all. I"m not 100% sure if you are arguing my points by the quote, or supporting them by definitions. I'll admit I left it wide open for interpretation. I'm just curious
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:30 PM   #9  
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Bottome line: cool video
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:50 AM   #10  
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guys, chill out, any and every plane will do this. Its a 1 G manauever, oil/fuel will not be a problem for the less that 2 sec your inverted. No damage done, 1 g is 1 g to the plane upside down or not
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