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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Strike Vote (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/139612-strike-vote.html)

Johnnychimpo 11-01-2022 05:26 AM
Originally Posted by Johnnychimpo (Post 3524232)
  • Section 7 (Vacation) – We are disappointed ALPA was unwilling to close this section despite our offer of significant gains in every major area of vacation, including higher pay per vacation day than both American and United.
  • Section 8 (Deadhead) – Very little progress was made, but ALPA’s claim that our offers on deadhead lag even Endeavor strains credulity.
As we work through the remaining – and in some cases most complex and costly – sections of the contract, we believe both parties should remain focused on making progress and finding areas of compromise. The facts matter, and pilots deserve accurate information from their elected representatives. We will continue to set the record straight.

said differently: “we’re disappointed that ALPA is sticking to its guns, and doing what you have asked them to do. We will, however, try to continue to spin it so that ALPA is to blame for the slow progress…”

Bait 11-01-2022 05:39 AM
Originally Posted by Johnnychimpo (Post 3524232)
  • Section 7 (Vacation) – We are disappointed ALPA was unwilling to close this section despite our offer of significant gains in every major area of vacation, including higher pay per vacation day than both American and United.
  • Section 8 (Deadhead) – Very little progress was made, but ALPA’s claim that our offers on deadhead lag even Endeavor strains credulity.
As we work through the remaining – and in some cases most complex and costly – sections of the contract, we believe both parties should remain focused on making progress and finding areas of compromise. The facts matter, and pilots deserve accurate information from their elected representatives. We will continue to set the record straight.

did this come from the same folks who told us a month ago that our rotations are totally improved because the average layover length is up 0.1 hours and legs per duty day are down 0.01? So they are clearly better, right?

​​​​​​​sorry, not buying the company spin

TED74 11-01-2022 05:41 AM
Serious question, only because I am curious. Are these guys as stupid as they seem? Do they just think we are stupid? Is it both? Is this messaging truly just for the non-pilots at Delta? Are they intelligent, but willing to be so intellectually dishonest with us and with themselves?

I am embarrassed for this management team. It’s awkward and even a little depressing.

notEnuf 11-01-2022 05:44 AM
They must believe their own rhetoric, it's a job requirement.

First Break 11-01-2022 05:46 AM
Originally Posted by Johnnychimpo (Post 3524232)
  • Section 7 (Vacation) – We are disappointed ALPA was unwilling to close this section despite our offer of significant gains in every major area of vacation, including higher pay per vacation day than both American and United.
  • Section 8 (Deadhead) – Very little progress was made, but ALPA’s claim that our offers on deadhead lag even Endeavor strains credulity.
As we work through the remaining – and in some cases most complex and costly – sections of the contract, we believe both parties should remain focused on making progress and finding areas of compromise. The facts matter, and pilots deserve accurate information from their elected representatives. We will continue to set the record straight.​​​​​​​
Directly from Section 8D of Endeavor’s contract:

“The Company will book the Pilot business travel in Business Class or First Class on flights with a marketing time greater than three and one-half (3.5) hours, subject to pass policy and seat availability.”

Seems kinda credulity.

notEnuf 11-01-2022 05:48 AM
Originally Posted by First Break (Post 3524277)
Directly from Section 8D of Endeavor’s contract:

“The Company will book the Pilot business travel in Business Class or First Class on flights with a marketing time greater than three and one-half (3.5) hours, subject to pass policy and seat availability.”

Seems kinda credulity.
Sounds kind of loose and wiggly, to be exploited later.

Crown 11-01-2022 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by Bait (Post 3524268)
did this come from the same folks who told us a month ago that our rotations are totally improved because the average layover length is up 0.1 hours and legs per duty day are down 0.01? So they are clearly better, right?

sorry, not buying the company spin
IMO these updates reek of desperation. The tide has turned in our favor. Combine the strike vote with other airlines clearly making credible, tangible, clear as day gains, and the company has to be scrambling trying to figure out how little they can get squeezed at this point.

I think the company is suddenly desperate to spin it in their favor.

1Taco 11-01-2022 06:30 AM
Originally Posted by Crown (Post 3524283)
IMO these updates reek of desperation. The tide has turned in our favor. Combine the strike vote with other airlines clearly making credible, tangible, clear as day gains, and the company has to be scrambling trying to figure out how little they can get squeezed at this point.

I think the company is suddenly desperate to spin it in their favor.

Do they really think anyone believes them at this point?

Bucking Bar 11-01-2022 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3524206)
Its amazing to me how ignorant pilots can be on a process that is so important. Instead of carefully reading the union Comm’s they rely on forums. The 28 million number you reference was what we gained in a handful of very low cost sections that were closed out at that time. Those sections probably had a total value of 120 million so yes I was happy with 28 million in improvements. I have also posted repeatedly that I was looking for a contract total gain of about 1 billion in year one. That would have been a 20% net gain. I do realize that is paltry compared to the 60% plus net gain we demanded.
When we get this contract done I bet it’s right around that one billion number just 4 years late and a tremendous gain by the company with losing more than a contract cycle and a tremendous loss to the pilots. A loss that will carry forward contract after contract.
By opening for a 3 billion plus contract we assured the company a victory. Now we are just trying to define the terms and salvage what we can.
Then Sir, we must adjust our expectations and demands.

American and United will match us.

The market for our services is likely to properly be a gross add off > $1.5bn.

I am getting offers that match my current Delta income with all the overtime flying. So straight pay, going back to my old line of work is a better deal, especially when MUCH MUCH better healthcare, a defined benefit pension plan (of sorts, can't believe they still exist) and company stock are all above what Delta offers. As this continues and I keep looking at it, there could easily be a point where even a semi-senior Captain finds working here as just not worth it and leave. That is the market. ... and IMHO there are many pilots who are smarter, have a more diverse skill set and connections better than mine.

The nostalgic reasons for staying here are diminishing with every WOCL intrusion. Delta hired guys who believe in the magic. Ed's never been a believer. Numbers guys don't keep the faith.

three1five 11-01-2022 07:09 AM
Originally Posted by First Break (Post 3524277)
Directly from Section 8D of Endeavor’s contract:

“The Company will book the Pilot business travel in Business Class or First Class on flights with a marketing time greater than three and one-half (3.5) hours, subject to pass policy and seat availability.”

Seems kinda credulity.
FWIW This is in Endeavor’s contract, but zero Endeavor pilots are booked for deadheads in first class because of the “subject to pass policy” clause. DL’s pass policy prohibits it. So even though it’s in EDV’s contract, due the DL policy EDV pilots are never booked to DH in first class. On a MSP-ATL DH, the average EDV pilot is in seat 34B, just like a DL pilot.

If anyone is saying EDV pilots DH in first class, that is inaccurate.


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