Minimum Balance Plan
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Resting
Posts: 376
i’m also confused…and also willing to listen.
“you can tell it’s an aspen because of the way it is.”
of course improvements to the contract are going to benefit people who stay longer and work more than those who do neither. That’s because they stay longer and work longer. A 20% pay boost is also going to help me more over the next couple decades than it helps someone who leaves in two years; we don’t double or triple the hourly rate for someone nearing retirement because they’re leaving soon, right???
The contract to fix deadzoners was c2015. Fixing them now (when very few of which still remain) is too little too late.
“you can tell it’s an aspen because of the way it is.”
of course improvements to the contract are going to benefit people who stay longer and work more than those who do neither. That’s because they stay longer and work longer. A 20% pay boost is also going to help me more over the next couple decades than it helps someone who leaves in two years; we don’t double or triple the hourly rate for someone nearing retirement because they’re leaving soon, right???
The contract to fix deadzoners was c2015. Fixing them now (when very few of which still remain) is too little too late.
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#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,258
#13
Can't abide NAI
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: Short Bus FO
Posts: 454
A lot of us got an extra five years near the bottom of the seniority list making post-bankruptcy FO wages. I spent over 15 years in the bottom 25% of the list, and 20+ years in the bottom half. Couldn't hold the left seat for the first 16 years. Compare that to pilots hired after 2014.
And I was one of the lucky ones who didn't get furloughed.
And I was one of the lucky ones who didn't get furloughed.
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
A lot of us got an extra five years near the bottom of the seniority list making post-bankruptcy FO wages. I spent over 15 years in the bottom 25% of the list, and 20+ years in the bottom half. Couldn't hold the left seat for the first 16 years. Compare that to pilots hired after 2014.
And I was one of the lucky ones who didn't get furloughed.
And I was one of the lucky ones who didn't get furloughed.
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 90
$300,000 “plus up” may be the current ask..but in the 2019 opener it was $1,000,000 AND they wanted to fund it by drastically reducing the DC % for newhires for years. Think it couldn’t happen??? It’s EXACTLY what NWA did to their Junior Pilots in bankruptcy. The Junior/Newhires got 2-3% DC while those Senior “more deserving I put in my dues super premium widebody Captains”…raking in 18-20% DC. Thankfully must of the deadzoners took the VEOP. I agree with the OP….why are we wasting negotiating capital on a MCBP min balance. I place most of the blame for the Company laughing us out of room and walking out squarely on the minority Deadzoners who were VERY organized, active and controlled the MEC and drove the ask sooooo far outside the ZOR that here we are 3 years later & no contract. All this insanity about C2004 plus inflation AND 25% DC AND Lump Sum plus up….and we’ve gotten exactly nothing. 63% of all Delta pilots have never had a pay cut…we have only had pay raises….up until C2919 when the Deadzoners stopped the music….and they continue to with Full Retro blah blah blah….so the Veops can cash in. I’ll take an extra % in rates and a “signing bonus” equal to full retro and screw the Veops who have held things up and continue to do so. I’ll get excoriated for this post. The Chit Chat crowd will stroke out but I don’t GAS…
#17
The Min Balance Plan was brought up because any DC increases would have a disproportionate benefit to the most junior pilots and almost no benefit to pilots retiring in the near future. In order to recognize this fact, the min balance plan idea was created. It basically creates an annuity which would take whatever gain in DC we get and bridge the gap for those close to retirement. Every year after the agreement is signed, the value of the annuity decreases until the end of the agreement or 5 years (can't remember which) at which point no pilots would qualify for an annuity.
#20
$300,000 “plus up” may be the current ask..but in the 2019 opener it was $1,000,000 AND they wanted to fund it by drastically reducing the DC % for newhires for years. Think it couldn’t happen??? It’s EXACTLY what NWA did to their Junior Pilots in bankruptcy. The Junior/Newhires got 2-3% DC while those Senior “more deserving I put in my dues super premium widebody Captains”…raking in 18-20% DC. Thankfully must of the deadzoners took the VEOP. I agree with the OP….why are we wasting negotiating capital on a MCBP min balance. I place most of the blame for the Company laughing us out of room and walking out squarely on the minority Deadzoners who were VERY organized, active and controlled the MEC and drove the ask sooooo far outside the ZOR that here we are 3 years later & no contract. All this insanity about C2004 plus inflation AND 25% DC AND Lump Sum plus up….and we’ve gotten exactly nothing. 63% of all Delta pilots have never had a pay cut…we have only had pay raises….up until C2919 when the Deadzoners stopped the music….and they continue to with Full Retro blah blah blah….so the Veops can cash in. I’ll take an extra % in rates and a “signing bonus” equal to full retro and screw the Veops who have held things up and continue to do so. I’ll get excoriated for this post. The Chit Chat crowd will stroke out but I don’t GAS…
The TDC worked off a point system, which was a combination of age and longevity. To get a "full share", I think you had to have 40 points. There is a demographic made up of fNWA pilots who were quite young when hired and when the TDC kicked off they didn't get a fully share, and the drop off was really pretty steep. A pilot with just 2 points less than another pilot got about half the TDC money.
When the merger happened, the TDC was replaced with a flat 10% DC, so by the time the younger pilots "aged into" a full share of the TDC, it was replaced by the flat DC, which paid less.
The post-merger DC didn't really improve until 2012, and then only by 1% in 2016. Pay took a long time to recover and didn't even approach C2k rates until 2016 (not corrected for inflation). Let's not forget the market was also in the toilet from 2000 to about 2014ish with flat or even negative returns, depending on which point you look at (dot com bubble in 2000, followed by the financial crisis of 2008). Everyone looks at the DC we get now, stupid high market returns (oops, until recently) along with the pay rates, profit sharing and thinks it's golden. Money works best when you start investing early, but this whole time period for many pilots was disrupted by pay cuts. Even if you were in the market, times were tough.
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DLax85
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01-18-2017 07:53 PM