Vacation AIP
 

Reading the notepad, the AIP sounds good and looks like we may be making progress elsewhere.

Very positive email

And I’m still voting NO!















kidding

While the company won’t admit it as Bastian and the like don’t seem to think we would strike, this seems like it has lit a fire under their asses and we are going to make much quicker progress and could indeed have a TA by 1/1!

The general public hears "Delta pilots voted to strike" and they tune out after that... "wait, weren't we going to take Delta to Aruba... I hope they don't strike..."

After the vote, several neighbors who don't know much about airlines asked when we're striking "so should be buy tickets or not". Ed can talk on TV as much as he wants, but the public heard what the "strike" part loud and clear.

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Oh yes, I have also been approached by many that have heard that on Fox News, CNN, etc. and ask if we’re going on strike today. I just go with the “hopefully we can come to an agreement and don’t have to” line.

I also think that AA and UA shutting down their offers at the same time as the strike vote was a huge follow on.

Where are the automatic no voters? Aside from BB on Facebook

“Where is muh min balance pillow, I mean pillar?!?!”

Good to see Vacation closed out…still scratching my head on DH. This is the sword the company wants to die on?

Re: Strike vote and moving the needle:

It’s honestly surprised me how many neighbors/friends/family have asked me about the strike vote.

I was at a kid’s birthday party recently, and 2 people asked me about it as soon as I arrived. Had a crowd of probably 8-10 listening to me explain why we voted, what it means, how our current contract was from 2016, etc. All were very concerned and asking if it could happen by Christmas. Told them anything is possible at this point, but the pilots are ready to take a stand for the contract we’ve earned and the feedback was positive.

That was encouraging. Now its time for both parties to whisper their LBFO on rates and retro into the mediators ear so she can say either your close and keep working or set the parking brake. I need some me time this winter anyway. Just a reminder for 2020-2022 8/5/5 was suggested as reasonable by an infamous poster, 4/4/13 is what the FAs got, and BLS inflation calculator since January 2019 (our last pay raise) is 18.4%. So a real 5% raise over the last PWA would be a 23.4% increase today.

[QUOTE=Wolf424;3531492]Good to see Vacation closed out…still scratching my head on DH. This is the sword the company wants to die on?

Re: Strike vote and moving the needle:

It’s honestly surprised me how many neighbors/friends/family have asked me about the strike vote.

I've had many of our flight attendants ask whether they'll be working over the holidays or not. The message is clear (just not accurate).

Read that thing and tell me what real meat there is in it. There is nothing in there that they haven't been saying for months, except some vague statement about reaching an agreement about vacation. The rest is the same old same old.

Those five remaining sections can easily take MONTHS if not longer. I think it is even a disservice to state that a "full AIP could take place at an upcoming session". Any of you really buying that?

We will see nothing until well into spring if even then.

Lol. And if they didn't send out anything you would b**** too....

Good email. Positive, upbeat, and seems like some progress is being made. I’m looking forward to this being over so that we can just get on with life as usual for a while.

I think most importantly, a comprehensive rewrite is going to require the majority of the group to do a comprehensive read of it and vote accordingly when the time comes. Devil will be in the details.

My personal prediction is that Delta is hell bent on a full year 2022 profit and the appearance of a recovery surpassing wall streets expectations. We get an AIP in late Nov/early Dec. Full language/MEC vote/etc occurs mid December.

We vote end of Dec and into Jan. Delta still gets their full year profit, we get a contract we deserve, and with the pent up demand still and reduced schedules we print a record profit in 2023. My crystal ball is worthless but that’s how I see this playing out.

Retro is obviously a big deal on the pay front. Scope is of utmost importance. At first glance it looks like we might have made significant gains in vacation. A nice bump in retirement would be nice.

All in all, things are looking up thanks to the solidarity of everyone. This is setup for a storybook ending: Ed gives Delta pilots a great contract right at the holidays because he is such a good guy, pilots accept it, and they lived happily ever after for 24 months. Then we get angry and people want to burn it down again after an insulting opener on C2025 and us feeling worthless and sad again. 😂

100% confident with two majors rejecting TA's and massive participation in the strike vote, this MEC is not going to send out a TA that they feel hasn't squeezed out every last bit they can from the company.

Whether or not the membership will accept it is a completely different matter.

(All in all, a positive missive)

How is a negotiations update email from the NC something to complain about? The five remaining sections could take months, or they could take a day or two. You and I have zero idea how close they are on any of the remaining open sections. The only ones who know are the company and NC.

Labor relations are a big deal. Election is over. Year is almost over. NC sends out a decent email, and you’re complaining it doesn’t have “real meat” in it? They basically said we have notched a win in vacation without posting the actual details so that people on social media don’t blow up.

I liked the email, I appreciate the Email, and I hope we can wrap this up and collectively get a win for 15k of us.

Please stop spreading mistruths. No matter how many times anyone repeats it...FAs didn't get 4/4/13. More like 4% in 2022 and boarding pay (6-8% for most people) but it also came along with additional time we have to work.

I hope you guys get everything and then some but don't make it seem like we got something we didn't.

Question: won’t we need to vote and have the results of the global scope agreement before we can vote on any full TA? I can’t imagine anyone voting in a TA with an incomplete section 1, and I don’t think we’d want both votes to run concurrently.

You've gotten 2, 4% raises and boarding pay worth 13% since our negotiations started and since our last raise. And no, you aren't working more.

Next to the auto yes voters like JTA.

what was the additional time?

Was going to post an SNL Debbie Downer response to this, but somehow this seems more appropriate.

https://youtu.be/kMsrE-9CLFg

This concerns me too. We don't want a new contract with the old section 1 just copy and pasted. I have a feeling they think we're desperate enough to just accept no changes to scope for a pay raise. Hopefully that's just the conspiracy theorist in me though.

The new scope agreement has comprehensive changes. It is worth the wait.

Maybe the company is going to make the rest of the package sweet enough that we’ll agree to keep our current crap sandwich DH and meals language.

Section 1 is complete with major improvements, outside of the global scope part.

I actually don't know who JTA is believe it or not...wonder if I blocked them lol

The meals language is already complete with big improvements (section 5).

Thanks. I somehow missed that. My point remains on the DH piece though. :(

Retro is going to be the battle. Rates will happen…retro is anyone’s best guess, but it needs to be significant.

DALFA, you need to stick to the facts as the company themselves have published! FA's have received two 4% raises and one boarding pay addition which for the average domestic FA flying an average line equates to a 16% increase (published in your Q&A section regarding "boarding pay", some will make more and some less). These 3 raises when compounded (added on top of each other) equals 25.5%! FACT

Im guessing the management asks in scheduling are their main objective. I’d guess they are going to “give” on the other sections to get the mediator on their side to force their scheduling asks through. It sounds like they want to end reserve PB days so they can continue to staff us poorly with fewer consequences.

He's probably out flying a GS. Don't worry, he'll post a 10 page response by the end of the day.

The remaining sections aren’t complicated. They could easily be done in a week. If the company stalls, we could still be years away. Last TA came out of nowhere. One day we’re all ****ed, the next day we felt like we had won. Turns out that deal was just okay due to company prolonging it way passed the amendable date.

You mean compound interest--also known as "Time Value of Money"--is a real thing? You wouldn't know it when reading some angry posts here (usually accompanied by a liberal sprinkling of "Moakie"). TVM is routinely dismissed--until we want to bring up compounded pay raises for the FAs.

That too, is a FACT.

Plus don't forget, the company and union easily could of left last week with future offers to discuss in hands...and we don't need a mediated session to continue talking. Not saying we will achieve something ASAP, but the fact these gains occurred so quickly tells me the company finally realizes its time to press on...

Mongo

Can we not do the same FA pay argument for the 15th time in the last 3 months, always with the same cast of characters?

TVM is a real ting which is why we wait for the right deal. Going forward those numbers compounded are significant. TA1 vs our current PWA is a perfect example. If you were really on board with this concept, a post amenable date escalator mechanism is what you seek.

I don't disagree. But we also tend to underestimate modest pay raises, on time, compounded on top of each other. Think .300 hitter who gets a lot of doubles and a fair share of HRs, vs a .220 hitter who usually strikes out, but occasionally hits an upper-deck HR that makes it on the highlights. Most managers will take hitter #1.

It seems we are still doing good things here, and I'm encouraged by the latest notepad.