Wolf424

Luckily this thread’s topic isn’t all that important

69 pages of thread derailment incoming…

20Fathoms

No firsthand knowledge but this is how I heard it, others can chime in and correct if inaccurate.

It was during the waning days of the 747 and DTW was the only base for that aircraft. Routes varied but for quite a while there were zero departures from DTW so every single trip started and ended with a deadhead. Despite this fact, the company still put copious amounts of pilots on short call to sit around Detroit and twiddle their thumbs.

Many decided that was stupid and since any trip they would get would start with a deadhead anyway, they just decided not to show up for short call and stayed in Florida or wherever they were and deviated from DH when called. Obviously this was a major abuse of the system.

All worked fine until a whale from ATL to ICN had a medical emergency and diverted into Detroit. Original crew timed out and replacements were called off short call to work the flight. Oops. Quite a few people got caught out and the company went back through KCM records and determined that this had been going on for years. They got fired but ALPA got at least some of them back.

Anecdotally, it seemed the company retaliated with increased short calls for everyone for a while.

Gone Flying

yeah, all 4 pilots they called were out of position, I think the closest was in Texas or something and one of them was outside the country. That flight ended up canceling and cost DL something like $2m. It is my understanding the only pilot that got fired was the one who was outside the US ( I think they were in Asia)

FangsF15

That's pretty much it. To add to the context, the company investigated more than just those caught out of position, and found there were dozens of pilots who had not commuted to SC, some of which for a least 2 years. No records of a KCM, Nonrev, JS, or other travel.

So the company basically said, "You want to play a game? Ok, let's play a game", and maxed out SC's for the summer of 2017 across the system. A classic version of "One guy crapped his pants, now everyone has to wear diapers." I was on the -400 at the time in NYC, with 6 departures daily - so 12 FO's needed. I personally saw 11 FO's on SC more than once.

I had not heard the 4 'fired' were from the out-of-position crew in question, but rather the worst offenders of the dozens investigated. But I don't actually know. What I do know is that APLA spent a lot of political capital for the 4. As I recall, the only pilot who did not get thier job back was because he had a long history the company was not willing to overlook anymore.

So yes, I have a big issue with pilots in a "Union of One" costing the rest of the pilot group. While ALPA has a duty to mount at least a tacit defense in representing its members, that duty is not inviolate or absolute,IMO. There is a line. IOW, you have a right to representation - you do NOT have a right to go off on your own, and make your own set of rules. At some point, we have to police ourselves, and not automatically go all-in on behalf of the worst offenders.

Nantonaku

First it was just wait until the first week of March and the CPO’s will be out in force sending people home. And then the myth that ALPA won’t want to waste resources on people being hat disciplined.That never happened. Now it just wait for the future they are going to give people a warning and then send them home. Most people making this up must not work here or ever check the SC list. They’ll never send anyone home for a hat - ever. I’d love to be the pilot to announce to 200 people we are 3 hours late because the company sent a pilot home to get a hat. Sorry, not happening.

Hoosier Daddy

I have heard a rumor about one of the Chief Pilot's offices thinking about carrying a supply of hats and insignia, and payroll deducting the costs for those who conveniently forget theirs

zippinbye

Legit question here. What if my base is chilly and I’m operating under the warm destination climate exemption, uniform jacket left home …. I have a light jacket stuffed in my overnight bag and break it out for the walk around and/or commuting in the super-chilled 737 cabin? How flagrant of a FOM violation is this? Based on my read of the FOM, it’s probably ok to wear the sanctioned overcoat without the uniform jacket in order to stay warm. But let’s face it - that’s bulky and unsuitable for many situations. Being cold without the uniform jacket puts one between a rock and a hard place in terms of uniform compliance.I know someone is going to say “sweater” but I’m not a sweater guy and again, not suitable for many situations.

CBreezy

The official answer is, you should have brought and wore your horse blanket.

ancman

If you’re referring to actions that are far more egregious than not wearing a hat, then I might agree with you to an extent. However, ALPA has an extensive set of resources that we’ve all paid into. They have a duty of fair representation to each individual pilot.

ALPA also has an obligation to fight disproportionate discipline for any offense. While I don’t condone what the 747 pilots did, the case could easily be made that the company’s move to go straight to termination was disproportionate. Letting termination stand for failure to report to a single reserve assignment would have been bad precedent for the entire pilot group, however egregious the 747 pilots’ circumstances may have been.

I would support an ALPA defense for a pilot terminated for not wearing a hat for the same reason. It’s a moot point, as no pilot will be fired for not wearing a hat. Continued insubordination may be a different matter, but that’s a very long HR road for the company to go down over something this trivial. They simply won’t be able to if large numbers of pilots remain hatless.

CBreezy

It wasn't a single reserve assignment. It was a pattern of failing to be in position that they got away with for awhile.