New hires are rational adults that can make decisions on their own too.

 

Dude. Chill. I hate to break it to you, but if this internet tough guy persona you're using carries over to the cockpit, you're going to end up in the CPO pretty quick. The way FOs are these days with their hurt feelings, you'll be shocked when the CPO doesn't back you up. You'll be the one in the HR meeting getting a lecture for harassing them and being unprofessional.

Fly the jet. Mentor the FOs in flying and leadership. Let the CPO and HR deal with their appearance. You'd be shocked with the newhires we're seeing and how fast the culture has changed hiring 4000 pilots in the last 2 years of all backgrounds. This isn't the airline it was 5 years ago. Let it go.

 

Absolutely NOONE is encouraging anyone to have a NorthFace jacket mixed with any identifiable uniform items, in the terminal or otherwise. No one.

You keep taking past everyone here as if anyone is suggesting that. Exactly. Hide your hat and ID lanyard, and take off your tie (preferably), and you are completely FOM compliant walking anywhere in a zipped up NorthFace.

 

Funny.

I was told by a CP and in new hire to wear a jacket if you need to. Rain? Cold? Both are safety decisions.

They said try not to wear the hat with a non standard jacket, but it wasn’t high on their list of important things.

 

I did a walk around in YUL several years ago, dead of winter and ambient temp -20F. No overcoat or winter gear except for a black knit cap with my Guard unit’s logo. I “expedited” the second half of the walk around because half way through I could barely breath. It felt like my lungs were literally freezing. I get back in the jetway with my hat on and the captain sarcastically says, “nice hat, is that authorized in the FOM?”

We need more uniform options, specifically outerwear. Pouring rain? How professional is a soaking wet admiral’s coat that smells like a wet dog? I carry (and use) a very light/thin Northface rain jacket for these situations. -20F? How professional is a pilot who literally can’t breathe and has to urgently rush through a walk-around? Bottom line, it’s often a safety issue, and I’m not afraid to point that out to supervision if questioned.

As a global airline, we need a number of uniform options, especially since we can be in scenarios such as YUL one night and BOG the next… in January.

 

Blue, honestly no attempt at an argument here with you, just discussion. And specifically in regards to the FOM approved raincoat, a zip up black style type is not mentioned. Can't argue with you there. But, when is one allowed to inject a certain amount of "reasonableness" into a specific scenario in a given day, like the driving-rain walk around we have mentioned here? No one is suggesting departing with less than min fuel because you don't feel like going back to the gate, insert some other FOM/AM/Vol-1 policy here, you get the picture. I would think that if you went to work and attempted to live inside of the bullet points and lists in a given manual without any micro-flex, especially for such low hanging fruit as an inclement WX walk around, a day at work would be extremely frustrating.

 

Harrrrumph!!

 

I love how we call everything in the FOM “guidance” here, then get completely wrapped around the axle over the slightest deviation from the most trivial language in the book.

Out of a group of 20 captains, you’d be lucky to find one who is actually going to say something to an FO about a North Face jacket. And by the time a new hire finds that one captain, they’ll already be on their way to upgrade training the next week. Unless an FO is doing something unsafe, illegal, or likely to land one or both of us in trouble, they’re not going to hear from me about it. This issue doesn’t rise to any of those levels at all.

Personally, I prefer that the pilot performing the walkaround be as comfortably-dressed as possible so that they can focus on doing a good preflight. Nobody cares what type of jacket a pilot is wearing when they have an ugly neon safety vest over it anyway.

 

check six……

fiend for life

honestly i would just laugh in any captains face that asked me to take off a jacket in cold weather. They can call mommy to come and talk to me. Id love to hear the conversation with the duty pilot why said captain wont fly with an FO “out of uniform”. Captains arent gods, plenty of goobers out there. I would be polite and respectful like an adult, i just wouldnt take it off

 

My LCP TODAY told me he was bringing his North Face on his next trip, “because it’s that time of year”….what if I get a highlighter yellow North Face??? Would that be safer?? 🤣