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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 3700904)
I know you keep the extended duty pay if bought off for OE
Are you sure about that? I've been seeing the opposite. I assumed they were relying on the §23.G.5.a. language ("pay and credit"); and not the §4.E.Note: ("all pay, no credit applicable"), which refers back to "convenience of the company," which explicitly excludes OE & refers to 23G5 (§4.E.1.d.). In any case, my OE removals have not been keeping the EDP nor SIT pays (haven't had one with CARVE pay yet, so I have no basis). I'd assumed that was correct based on my reading of those paragraphs. I'd be delighted to be wrong--can you provide counterpoint? |
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 3701003)
Translation: the only way I benefit is in pure pay rate, and I didn’t get enough, and I don’t like the NB pilots closing the gap with soft pay. (which, BTW, paid me an extra six hours on my last rotation in Sit/carve/EDP/reroute, not ADG, none of which I would have gotten in the last contract)
Also, as a point of fact, retirement was not “left out totally“. Why do people think that if they exaggerate, it makes it more true, or helps make some point? We are three months away from getting 17%, and 27 months away from getting 18%. What we did not get, was the “minimum balance”. If you want to be frustrated about that, that is certainly your right, and I can even understand that to an extent. But please don’t misrepresent our gains. |
Originally Posted by OOfff
(Post 3701016)
To emphasize, the move from 16% to 18% is a 12.5% improvement in DC.
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Originally Posted by nochopforboxes
(Post 3701032)
Genuinely curious here… I assume it’s parabolic but can you expand on the math behind that?
so for every dollar earned, you’re getting 12.5% more in your DC than you were before the change. |
Originally Posted by OOfff
(Post 3701016)
To emphasize, the move from 16% to 18% is a 12.5% improvement in DC.
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 3701042)
The math doesn't lie. However, perspective does wilt the results. If the MEC led people to believe that retirement was going to be addressed for ALL...... they fell short. That extra 12.5% DB for 2 or 3 or 5 years amounts to mere chum change when compared to MEC lead pillars and expectations. For the newer hirees that 12.5% is biggly dollars due to TVM.
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Originally Posted by OOfff
(Post 3701049)
The fact that younger people enjoy more TVM is a simple part of the nature of life. Everyone got an improvement of 12.5% per dollar earned. The fact that older pilots cannot take advantage of it is no more lamentable than the fact that older pilots could actually buy a starter home when they were young.
Current new hire starter homes aren't the 1800sq/ft or yore..... I imagine they are a little bit better/bigger. But according to you, new hires can't even afford ANY starter home. WTF? |
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
(Post 3701056)
Gosh. Was I buying that starter home on the $26,000 I made in my Delta probationary year, or the $53,000 I made in year 5 at Delta? Your lack of perspective is astounding.
Current new hire starter homes aren't the 1800sq/ft or yore..... I imagine they are a little bit better/bigger. But according to you, new hires can't even afford ANY starter home. WTF? |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3700986)
Pay rates. Simple. Clean. Pure. Do not require extra effort on the employee's part to mend if shorted. Further, in our pattern bargaining world, higher rates, lift the bar for all others to then pattern off of. Soft pay? Meh, they have to figure that out and it becomes very very shop specific. DALPA was scared, they didn't bother to push rates where they needed to be adjusted for inflation (I made more as a MD-88 capt decades ago than a 717A does now thanks to inflation and our crappy pay rates). Soft pay does not fill the gap, it doesn't pay all the time, like a rate. We were in a period of having leverage like never before and as always, DALPA snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, capitulated to management (who laughs at us to date at what a good deal this contract is for THEM) and then high fives themselves for deliviering yet another substandard contract to the group. We didn't give our friends much to benchmark off of either. I've come to expect this from our organization. They never fail to disappoint me. BTW I did vote yes for C19. I flipped around a bit, but eventually I voted yes. I was not happy they left out totally one of the pillars.
You'll have to live with this soft pay hate boogie, not me. This is my last contract at DAL. I don't fly NB either. The saddest part is that we could have done much better, as there was never more of a favorable environment for pilots than now. Enjoy your homework figuring out what and how you should have been paid for work you gave them (that's why they are laughing a us - they are saving millions). |
Originally Posted by TED74
(Post 3701066)
I’ll play that game. 53k in what year and in what community? Let’s look at college costs and housing costs in that community then and now.
BTW community is irrelevant. Pay was pretty uniform due to work rules at the time. I'll help you, 25,000 in 1988 is equal to $63,000 today and 5 years later, $53,000 was worth $140,000 today. Do you think a new hire today makes $63,000/year or that in 5 years, he will make$160,000? PS because you asked. My tract home, 2000sq/ft with laminate counter tops and linoleum flooring in 1988 was $140,000(almost 5 times my probationary pay) Today's new hire can buy a home in a close community(2 miles away) that has 4300 sq/ft with granite counter tops, hardwood flooring on a golf course with a pool for $500,000. Their pay is about a minimum of $136,000/years(potentially much greater, much quicker. That would be less than 4 times yearly pay. This is not including PS and DC of 17%....neither of which were available in 1988.(So today's new hire will make about $170,000) so effectively twice the house on less than 3 times the pay:eek: I know which one I would rather have. How about you? Take your fingers outta yo' ears....you and OOfff might hear something....even if you hear it, you probably won't internalize it. Still wanna play or are you gonna pick up your toys and go home? (Sorry(sort of) for the jab)) |
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