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-   -   ACE app question (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/144557-ace-app-question.html)

m3113n1a1 10-18-2023 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3711334)
Only 4 1/2 months behind now. I appreciate the work the reps are doing, but this is getting ridiculous. I have multiple issues from summer that need resolved. Yes I reached out to scheduling to no avail. There needs to be a better way.

It's ridiculous how the company basically makes ALPA catch all of their pay mistakes free of charge to them. It's honestly not ALPA's job (though I'm glad they are trying), the company has to fix this I just don't know how we can force them to. Do other airlines have this problem on such a massive scale? I feel like at my regional airlines if I caught a pay error I'd just speak to scheduling and they'd be able to fix it 99% of the time.

Boatbuilder 10-19-2023 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by m3113n1a1 (Post 3712086)
It's ridiculous how the company basically makes ALPA catch all of their pay mistakes free of charge to them. It's honestly not ALPA's job (though I'm glad they are trying), the company has to fix this I just don't know how we can force them to. Do other airlines have this problem on such a massive scale? I feel like at my regional airlines if I caught a pay error I'd just speak to scheduling and they'd be able to fix it 99% of the time.

As I mentioned in the OP my contract violation took place back in early May. The union has looked at the report and concluded it was a case of an illegal recovery.
Unfortunately there is no enforced timeline to make good on these violations.
I anticipate it will come down to a mass grievance of some sort as this sort of thing has become the norm.

hockeypilot44 11-02-2023 02:07 PM

Up to over 4 1/2 months now. Then once union decides you should be paid more money, company just sits on it indefinitely if they don’t agree. There has to be a better way. The time keeps increasing by the day. At what point is too long? 6 months? 1 year? Checking our own pay will not fix this. If the company doesn’t agree, then they will not pay. It then goes to Ace. We need Ace to be more efficient. 1 week at the most. Should take 1-2 days to be honest with you.

cencal83406 11-02-2023 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3719214)
Up to over 4 1/2 months now. Then once union decides you should be paid more money, company just sits on it indefinitely if they don’t agree. There has to be a better way. The time keeps increasing by the day. At what point is too long? 6 months? 1 year? Checking our own pay will not fix this. If the company doesn’t agree, then they will not pay. It then goes to Ace. We need Ace to be more efficient. 1 week at the most. Should take 1-2 days to be honest with you.

how long do you think it takes a fully spooled up committee member to work a PWA compliant claim? A claim that they believe is a violation?

I think your answer to this question would give the rest of us an idea of whether you are in the reasonableness zone.

hockeypilot44 11-02-2023 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 3719233)
how long do you think it takes a fully spooled up committee member to work a PWA compliant claim? A claim that they believe is a violation?

I think your answer to this question would give the rest of us an idea of whether you are in the reasonableness zone.

15 minutes per claim? I really don’t know, but I do know the fact that ace is so inefficient that claims are expiring is an issue.

Ar Pilot 11-02-2023 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3719214)
Up to over 4 1/2 months now. Then once union decides you should be paid more money, company just sits on it indefinitely if they don’t agree. There has to be a better way. The time keeps increasing by the day. At what point is too long? 6 months? 1 year? Checking our own pay will not fix this. If the company doesn’t agree, then they will not pay. It then goes to Ace. We need Ace to be more efficient. 1 week at the most. Should take 1-2 days to be honest with you.

This will likely take an effort of all pilots who have submitted ACE Reports that get submitted to the company and have not been responded to in a reasonable time frame (1 week? 18 months? you decide) to engage their CPO to begin the PWA 18.B.1 Pre-Grievance process. Don't believe the CPO is equipped to handled dozens of pilots a week doing this, causing this issue to get escalated to higher ups in Delta MGMT. There are over 1500 disputes that have been submitted to the company this year (out of 4900 total submitted) that have not been closed out. Roughly 30%. Hard to think that is a reasonable number for the dispute resolution process.

OOfff 11-02-2023 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3719285)
15 minutes per claim? I really don’t know, but I do know the fact that ace is so inefficient that claims are expiring is an issue.

claims don’t “expire,” you just have to have notified the company of the error in accordance with the PWA within 120 days

Ar Pilot 11-02-2023 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by OOfff (Post 3719290)
claims don’t “expire,” you just have to have notified the company of the error in accordance with the PWA within 120 days

Exactly. Just call CS or email your CPO. Include that evidence in your ACE submission

FangsF15 11-03-2023 04:03 AM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3719285)
15 minutes per claim? I really don’t know, but I do know the fact that ace is so inefficient that claims are expiring is an issue.

What you may be thinking of are pilots who don’t follow the Union’s clear direction to always start with calling CS first. When they don’t do that, and just file and ACE, by the time APLA gets to it, the 120 days to notify the company has expired. Pilots who do this need to look in the mirror for someone to blame.

And it’s not that ACE is inefficient. It’s that the Company is violating the friggin contract so much they have a hard time keeping up. ALPA is being forced to act as an auditing arm of the company, because the company won’t do it. Put the blame where it belongs, and it’s not on APLA who is working hard to get you your due.

Abouttime2fish 11-05-2023 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3719214)
Up to over 4 1/2 months now. Then once union decides you should be paid more money, company just sits on it indefinitely if they don’t agree. There has to be a better way. The time keeps increasing by the day. At what point is too long? 6 months? 1 year? Checking our own pay will not fix this. If the company doesn’t agree, then they will not pay. It then goes to Ace. We need Ace to be more efficient. 1 week at the most. Should take 1-2 days to be honest with you.

I still have a Sept 2022 claim. ALPA agreed there was a violation, it’s just been sitting with the company awaiting action.


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