MBCBP
12-23-2023 | 02:46 AM
#161
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 229
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12-23-2023 | 04:40 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 217
From: Looking left
Assuming you are in the MBCBP camp (meaning you did not go through the steps to keep excess/excess plus) think of the 401K this way:
The 401K "bucket" will first be filled by:
Company Contributions (17% in 2024)
Elective contributions (Traditional 401K, Roth 401K)
401A contributions
That 401K "bucket" can hold a max of $69,000. Catch up contributions are always on top and seperate, if over 50 in 2024 or beyond. Once that 401K bucket is full, OR your income hits above $345K (401a17) , any excess (now only company money) goes to the MBCBP. So, if you have retirement as a personal 4th pillar (read the tongue in cheek), the goal would be to put YOUR contributions in for max effect before the company has to fill the MBCBP sooner. Remember, MBCBP money is ONLY company money. So fill up your personal limits first (Traditional or Roth, or combo of both) to the $23,000 before the bucket is filled by the 17% also inflowing.
Personal strategy *Disclaimer- Not Financial Advice* for ROTH money is to NOT contribute at all to the ROTH 401K or Traditional; instead contribute all of the contirbutions to the 401A and call Fidelity the first time to have all conversions immediatly converted to ROTH. 401A contributions are AFTER TAX to begin with, and now they are ROTH. This bypasses the $23,000 402G limit and allows the maximum amount of 401K dollars to get into there as ROTH before the 415c1A limit of $69,000.
Fill the 401K pot faster than the company and the rest goes to MBCBP. A good PS check can really help to do that without tying up all the income for the first few months of the 2024 payroll cycle. If over 59.5YO, you can also do in plan conversions once a year to the 401K from the MBCBP (without messing with the 415 limit) and invest differently than the MBCBP 60/40 Fixed/Equity mix if more risk is wanted/warranted. *Disclaimer end*
Filling up the 401K pot quickly and having lots of MBCBP money is not a bad problem to have. If nothing else it frees up contribution money for after tax investing/saving.
The 401K "bucket" will first be filled by:
Company Contributions (17% in 2024)
Elective contributions (Traditional 401K, Roth 401K)
401A contributions
That 401K "bucket" can hold a max of $69,000. Catch up contributions are always on top and seperate, if over 50 in 2024 or beyond. Once that 401K bucket is full, OR your income hits above $345K (401a17) , any excess (now only company money) goes to the MBCBP. So, if you have retirement as a personal 4th pillar (read the tongue in cheek), the goal would be to put YOUR contributions in for max effect before the company has to fill the MBCBP sooner. Remember, MBCBP money is ONLY company money. So fill up your personal limits first (Traditional or Roth, or combo of both) to the $23,000 before the bucket is filled by the 17% also inflowing.
Personal strategy *Disclaimer- Not Financial Advice* for ROTH money is to NOT contribute at all to the ROTH 401K or Traditional; instead contribute all of the contirbutions to the 401A and call Fidelity the first time to have all conversions immediatly converted to ROTH. 401A contributions are AFTER TAX to begin with, and now they are ROTH. This bypasses the $23,000 402G limit and allows the maximum amount of 401K dollars to get into there as ROTH before the 415c1A limit of $69,000.
Fill the 401K pot faster than the company and the rest goes to MBCBP. A good PS check can really help to do that without tying up all the income for the first few months of the 2024 payroll cycle. If over 59.5YO, you can also do in plan conversions once a year to the 401K from the MBCBP (without messing with the 415 limit) and invest differently than the MBCBP 60/40 Fixed/Equity mix if more risk is wanted/warranted. *Disclaimer end*
Filling up the 401K pot quickly and having lots of MBCBP money is not a bad problem to have. If nothing else it frees up contribution money for after tax investing/saving.
12-23-2023 | 05:40 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 10
From: Bus driver
I see those options as 2 different things. If you want to convert company dollars to Roth, it's now a taxable event at tax season and you aren't adding actual dollars of your own into the plan. Total balance remains unchanged. If you ADD money via 401A with immediate conversion, you still pay taxes on the dollars going in, yet the total balance is higher as more dollars are actually going into your plan. If you were to contribute 17% via 401A, while the company is also contributing the 17%, in theory your 401K bucket would hit $69,000 with $34.5k as ROTH and $34.5K as taxable (all company contributions are "traditional"). So now you have $34.5k vs only $23k (Roth 401K limit) in the account. After that MBCBP gets 17% from the company. Keep also in mind that if converting "in plan" you will need to call fidelity each time you want to convert. If having 401A contributions immediately convert for Roth it's a single phone call and done. Speak with your own financial advisor to figure out what works for you, but if creating a 3-bucket like strategy there are some strategic moves that can be done in the earlier years so you don't have to play the Roth IRA conversion game in retirement.
12-23-2023 | 06:29 AM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 217
From: Looking left
I see those options as 2 different things. If you want to convert company dollars to Roth, it's now a taxable event at tax season and you aren't adding actual dollars of your own into the plan. Total balance remains unchanged. If you ADD money via 401A with immediate conversion, you still pay taxes on the dollars going in, yet the total balance is higher as more dollars are actually going into your plan. If you were to contribute 17% via 401A, while the company is also contributing the 17%, in theory your 401K bucket would hit $69,000 with $34.5k as ROTH and $34.5K as taxable (all company contributions are "traditional"). So now you have $34.5k vs only $23k (Roth 401K limit) in the account. After that MBCBP gets 17% from the company. Keep also in mind that if converting "in plan" you will need to call fidelity each time you want to convert. If having 401A contributions immediately convert for Roth it's a single phone call and done. Speak with your own financial advisor to figure out what works for you, but if creating a 3-bucket like strategy there are some strategic moves that can be done in the earlier years so you don't have to play the Roth IRA conversion game in retirement.
guess I’m still not seeing that much of a difference.
401A and In plan conversions of company money are both taxable, so it’s a push in that regard at tax time.
And in the end of the year it’s the same $ amount that is now Roth, albeit the company contributions converted to Roth are still on the “plan” side.
I understand converting the 401A money gets it into the Roth IRA right away in case legislation changes down the road with regard to converting Roth 401K to Roth IRA, or if RMD’s return for Roth 401K.
12-23-2023 | 07:16 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 589
12-23-2023 | 08:11 AM
#167
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 2
From: Hates Commuting
12-23-2023 | 08:29 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,629
Likes: 654
The dollars are the same, but a company retirement plan has different legal protections than an IRA. DYODD. Rolling over 401A into an IRA gives you the option of moving funds into a SDIRA. Again DYODD YMMV.
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