MBCBP
#111
We are all the best financial advisors when times are good. I rather have a roof over my head when the **** storm blows, which it will. The effects of the Covid years hasn't seen yet. The government put a bandaid and keep inflating the bubble. Once my house is paid off, I only really will need 15hrs of work per month to live comfortably. At that point the remaining 50hrs of pay can go to hobbies, market, REÍ, etc etc.
I wonder how wonder 25-30yr old hired would feel if we need to take concession. It’s just a matter of time before delta comes to the door knocking, when S hits the fan.
I wonder how wonder 25-30yr old hired would feel if we need to take concession. It’s just a matter of time before delta comes to the door knocking, when S hits the fan.
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,021
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The S&P returned 462% since 2006 or 9.88% compounded annually. It would have been a winning trade given that mortgages over that period ranged from 3-7%.
An even better play would have been gradually rolling the market position into RE over that period. A hypothetical pilot could have acquired one property per year over the decade from 2006-2015 and built a portfolio of income producing property that exceeds their Delta income. My only regret is that I didn't fall victim to the scam in a bigger way.
An even better play would have been gradually rolling the market position into RE over that period. A hypothetical pilot could have acquired one property per year over the decade from 2006-2015 and built a portfolio of income producing property that exceeds their Delta income. My only regret is that I didn't fall victim to the scam in a bigger way.

#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 193
The S&P returned 462% since 2006 or 9.88% compounded annually. It would have been a winning trade given that mortgages over that period ranged from 3-7%.
An even better play would have been gradually rolling the market position into RE over that period. A hypothetical pilot could have acquired one property per year over the decade from 2006-2015 and built a portfolio of income producing property that exceeds their Delta income. My only regret is that I didn't fall victim to the scam in a bigger way.
An even better play would have been gradually rolling the market position into RE over that period. A hypothetical pilot could have acquired one property per year over the decade from 2006-2015 and built a portfolio of income producing property that exceeds their Delta income. My only regret is that I didn't fall victim to the scam in a bigger way.

. The Great Recession was not kind to a number of others.
#114
Sounds really good. Wish I had done this. But there are some downfalls not discussed- what happens when there is a downturn and your renters can’t pay the rent?
-It depends on the property, renter, lease and jurisdiction. Some asset classes do better than others in a downturn.
You evict them right?
-If it's a storage unit, I forclose and have an auction. -If it's RV storage, I sieze the vehicle, notify lienholders and auction the vehicle if I'm not paid.
-In an RV park, remedies are as complicated as eviction to something as simple as removal for criminal trespass.
-Residential tenant gets a notice to vacate, sometimes in as little as 3 days depending on the jurisdiction, lease and financing terms.
-Cash for keys is an option if the property is left in good condition.
-A commercial tenant is handled per the terms of the lease. I've had late pays, but never an eviction. I've also collected every penny of late fees in those cases. My worst case was a commercial tenant whose damages exceeded the deposit. I ended up eating less than a month of rent.
Even landlord friendly states/counties can turn against investors. Free flowing COVID rent was great til it wasnt. There are certain markets I avoid because of the judge, but generally mitigate the risk with asset class vs jurisdiction. The risks you present are very real and deserve planning.
The first step in reducing risk for houses/apartments is proper education. Next is tenant screening. Then collecting an appropriate deposit based on risk. Finally you can offer an insurance in lieu of deposit program as a method of security.
Most states that takes at least two months. So you are out those two months rent. Then you have to rehab the property and get new renters - another month at least. Then in a downturn you likely have to lower the rent. Will that now cover you expenses? Maybe. What if this happens on multiple properties at once? Multiple mortgages being paid with no income plus the renovation costs. I have managed properties before and seen this so yes very possible even likely in a downturn.
-It depends on the property, renter, lease and jurisdiction. Some asset classes do better than others in a downturn.
You evict them right?
-If it's a storage unit, I forclose and have an auction. -If it's RV storage, I sieze the vehicle, notify lienholders and auction the vehicle if I'm not paid.
-In an RV park, remedies are as complicated as eviction to something as simple as removal for criminal trespass.
-Residential tenant gets a notice to vacate, sometimes in as little as 3 days depending on the jurisdiction, lease and financing terms.
-Cash for keys is an option if the property is left in good condition.
-A commercial tenant is handled per the terms of the lease. I've had late pays, but never an eviction. I've also collected every penny of late fees in those cases. My worst case was a commercial tenant whose damages exceeded the deposit. I ended up eating less than a month of rent.
Even landlord friendly states/counties can turn against investors. Free flowing COVID rent was great til it wasnt. There are certain markets I avoid because of the judge, but generally mitigate the risk with asset class vs jurisdiction. The risks you present are very real and deserve planning.
The first step in reducing risk for houses/apartments is proper education. Next is tenant screening. Then collecting an appropriate deposit based on risk. Finally you can offer an insurance in lieu of deposit program as a method of security.
Most states that takes at least two months. So you are out those two months rent. Then you have to rehab the property and get new renters - another month at least. Then in a downturn you likely have to lower the rent. Will that now cover you expenses? Maybe. What if this happens on multiple properties at once? Multiple mortgages being paid with no income plus the renovation costs. I have managed properties before and seen this so yes very possible even likely in a downturn.
I left residential real estate in 2015 and made a few mistakes when returning in 2019. The biggest two mistakes were geographic concentration and too much interest rate risk.
Even with rate cap insurance, variable rate debt can wipe out cash flow and equity faster than most people realize. In hindsight I would have gone lighter into MF turnarounds with bridge loans (Capital gains play) and heavier into long term holds with fixed rate debt (yield play).
The good news is that inflation fixes most problems if you don't screw up the leverage. The best way to not screw up leverage is to consistently grow your portfolio. If you have a meaningful portion of your net worth that you want allocated to RE, do it over a few years, not a few months. This is chess, not checkers.
#115
I was told I was absolutely stupid by my captain that I didn’t buy a Florida beach rental condo in 2007 like him with the Alpa claim/note. You know, the condos people were flipping that all went bust? And the ones who held out had to pay larger and larger shares of the HOA pots on saltwater maintenance and FL landscaping? Glad RE worked for you!
. The Great Recession was not kind to a number of others.
. The Great Recession was not kind to a number of others.Cash flow investors in workforce housing did much better than speculators or vacation housing.
#116
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 155
From: Big ones
what is workforce housing? Those with prices in the bottom 60% of the local market?
#117
Agreed. Definitely cycles to everything. With that said Real Estate looks rough across the board right now. Not too many deals available that are slam dunks with considerable Margin of Safety. Even the S&P 500 looks pricey with 10 years of negative real returns a sold possibility.
#118
#119
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 155
From: Big ones
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,836
Likes: 175
From: window seat
Agreed. Definitely cycles to everything. With that said Real Estate looks rough across the board right now. Not too many deals available that are slam dunks with considerable Margin of Safety. Even the S&P 500 looks pricey with 10 years of negative real returns a sold possibility.
For the "the market always goes up 8-10% including the great depression etc" crowd, yes, I suppose it does. But those who put money in leading up to it were out 30 years not including inflation and 50 years including inflation and it was only the massive economy edangering government/FR fueled bubble pumps that have been providing those returns for much of the up swings that provide that average number.
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