A question for the flight instructors (PPL)
05-29-2024 | 06:26 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Seccond, examiners generally cannot do any teaching on cert/rating checkrides. There might be a slim grey area... "I need you to do that stall again, but less aggressive on the recovery". But they certainly can't train a new subject
05-29-2024 | 10:04 AM
#12
All is fine at .79
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,490
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From: Paahlot
I don't think so. First off, he can't legally even conduct the checkride if all of the requisite training hasn't been completed.
Seccond, examiners generally cannot do any teaching on cert/rating checkrides. There might be a slim grey area... "I need you to do that stall again, but less aggressive on the recovery". But they certainly can't train a new subject
Seccond, examiners generally cannot do any teaching on cert/rating checkrides. There might be a slim grey area... "I need you to do that stall again, but less aggressive on the recovery". But they certainly can't train a new subject
Not necessarily logged including “unusual attitude recovery”.
DPE didn’t know until he was told.
I’ve had students claim they had not been taught a particular item by me or their instructor usually after the failed checkride.
We had a pretty extensive record keeping system where the student had to log in and electronically sign for the lesson completion with their PIN.
I’ve had non native English speakers get confused in the nomenclature, power-on stall vs departure stall etc.
Maybe the individual was taught but got confused.
05-29-2024 | 11:37 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
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Thanks y'all. Last time I had a look at the PPL requirements was back in the mid 80's. 👨🦳
No hood or google work back then. Not surprised it's been added.
He's actually got 160 hours. The fact his instructor signed him off for the checkride without going teaching unusual attitude recovery or going over ALL the requirements prior to the check is another red flag.
No hood or google work back then. Not surprised it's been added.
He's actually got 160 hours. The fact his instructor signed him off for the checkride without going teaching unusual attitude recovery or going over ALL the requirements prior to the check is another red flag.
05-29-2024 | 12:13 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2018
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Ref. 61.109 as of July 30, 1997
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...f/97-19963.pdf
Ref. FAA-S-8081-14:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC61-118A.pdf
Last edited by dmspilot; 05-29-2024 at 12:26 PM. Reason: added "at least" and references
05-29-2024 | 01:16 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,562
Likes: 1,227
All true, however he must have done at least the required simulated instrument.
Not necessarily logged including “unusual attitude recovery”.
DPE didn’t know until he was told.
I’ve had students claim they had not been taught a particular item by me or their instructor usually after the failed checkride.
We had a pretty extensive record keeping system where the student had to log in and electronically sign for the lesson completion with their PIN.
I’ve had non native English speakers get confused in the nomenclature, power-on stall vs departure stall etc.
Maybe the individual was taught but got confused.
Not necessarily logged including “unusual attitude recovery”.
DPE didn’t know until he was told.
I’ve had students claim they had not been taught a particular item by me or their instructor usually after the failed checkride.
We had a pretty extensive record keeping system where the student had to log in and electronically sign for the lesson completion with their PIN.
I’ve had non native English speakers get confused in the nomenclature, power-on stall vs departure stall etc.
Maybe the individual was taught but got confused.
Yes, he technically was signed off without the required training per the FARs. The DPE, in doing a logbook review, didn't catch that the CFI did not annotate unusual attitude recovery. But that doesn't change the fact that the training is required.
05-30-2024 | 12:27 PM
#16
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,398
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I've got a friend and neighbor that recently bought a Cirrus. He's been taking instruction in it from a Cirrus factory certified instructor.
He went for his check ride today after amassing @ 150 hours.
Got through the oral no problem. When the examiner went over what they'd be doing for the check he mentioned unusual attitude recovery while under the hood. His instructor had never done this with him. He informed the examiner of this and fortunately the examinar just put it down as an incomplete and postponed the practical portion of the exam.
It's been MANY years since I taught PPL. Is unusual attitudes under the hood a requirement for a PPL now? Seems like that would be an instrument exam.
He went for his check ride today after amassing @ 150 hours.
Got through the oral no problem. When the examiner went over what they'd be doing for the check he mentioned unusual attitude recovery while under the hood. His instructor had never done this with him. He informed the examiner of this and fortunately the examinar just put it down as an incomplete and postponed the practical portion of the exam.
It's been MANY years since I taught PPL. Is unusual attitudes under the hood a requirement for a PPL now? Seems like that would be an instrument exam.
Also, we’re all so tuned into people getting a PPL fast especially at academies but i’ll take the opposite approach and say there is zero wrong with doing it in more hours in a cirrus if you’re going to be a rich weekend warrior.
05-30-2024 | 07:02 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2022
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His instructor was an older gentleman. One of the delays in scheduling the checkride was they hadn't done any night flying, despite having over 120 hours at that point. I told my friend how unusual that was, at least back when I was teaching.
I definitely think there was a bit of fleecing going on.
I definitely think there was a bit of fleecing going on.
05-31-2024 | 04:01 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,562
Likes: 1,227
Is it possible that he DID do unusual attitudes and he just doesn’t remember? If he had good time I’d say it’s likely he did it and forgot.
Also, we’re all so tuned into people getting a PPL fast especially at academies but i’ll take the opposite approach and say there is zero wrong with doing it in more hours in a cirrus if you’re going to be a rich weekend warrior.
Also, we’re all so tuned into people getting a PPL fast especially at academies but i’ll take the opposite approach and say there is zero wrong with doing it in more hours in a cirrus if you’re going to be a rich weekend warrior.
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