Better replace the chief pilot office carpet
07-30-2024 | 07:07 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,065
Likes: 115
Trip was right to point out that at SLC (and other places similar) this should be briefed as a threat as part of WARTS. It is important to voice to the other pilot how we intend to mitigate it. "Hey this is SLC, we might get a late runway change or they may flip the airport around or we might have to deal with WDR issues". If its a WDR issue let's plan on informing ATC we'll need a few minutes and see if they have a place to go to hold and run the numbers. The De-Ice pad looks like a good place, so that would be my plan A". There should never be a rush to take off. Ever (well unless Mt Pinatubo is erupting and you gotta get outta dodge). If you time out, so be it. If you hit your min, so be it. Coordinate for the gate return. We get paid to make these decisions. That's what they want us to do. Never rush. Ever.
07-30-2024 | 07:28 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 3,252
Likes: 628
You had a good point Trip, it was worth highlighting here.
In my career I've had to stand on that carpet more than once. Every single time it was as a result of rushing and trying to, as they say, "Hack the mish". Most of our attributals and causals stem from a common denominator - rushing. It took me awhile in the left seat to slow things down. I grew up in a different Delta than most of our SL has. I'm glad to see a paradigm shift in our mentality over the years. However, there are still those operational pressures that we feel we must overcome. When you feel like that - its time to slow it down, set the break. Take some time to sort it out. No one is going to take issue with that approach.
In my career I've had to stand on that carpet more than once. Every single time it was as a result of rushing and trying to, as they say, "Hack the mish". Most of our attributals and causals stem from a common denominator - rushing. It took me awhile in the left seat to slow things down. I grew up in a different Delta than most of our SL has. I'm glad to see a paradigm shift in our mentality over the years. However, there are still those operational pressures that we feel we must overcome. When you feel like that - its time to slow it down, set the break. Take some time to sort it out. No one is going to take issue with that approach.
07-30-2024 | 07:33 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,495
Likes: 227
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
We learn from experience.
True story: Many moons ago as an ER FO I was relief pilot flying with a rushy CA in ARN. Apparently he didn't like the speed at which I was reading the WDR so he snapped it out of my hand, read it to the other FO, and then said: "FLAP 5, call for taxi." The FO called for taxi, the engines spooled, and then we heard: "Wait, we are still connected down here!"
You can't buy lessons (or kharma) like that.
True story: Many moons ago as an ER FO I was relief pilot flying with a rushy CA in ARN. Apparently he didn't like the speed at which I was reading the WDR so he snapped it out of my hand, read it to the other FO, and then said: "FLAP 5, call for taxi." The FO called for taxi, the engines spooled, and then we heard: "Wait, we are still connected down here!"
You can't buy lessons (or kharma) like that.
07-30-2024 | 10:10 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 24
We learn from experience.
True story: Many moons ago as an ER FO I was relief pilot flying with a rushy CA in ARN. Apparently he didn't like the speed at which I was reading the WDR so he snapped it out of my hand, read it to the other FO, and then said: "FLAP 5, call for taxi." The FO called for taxi, the engines spooled, and then we heard: "Wait, we are still connected down here!"
You can't buy lessons (or kharma) like that.
True story: Many moons ago as an ER FO I was relief pilot flying with a rushy CA in ARN. Apparently he didn't like the speed at which I was reading the WDR so he snapped it out of my hand, read it to the other FO, and then said: "FLAP 5, call for taxi." The FO called for taxi, the engines spooled, and then we heard: "Wait, we are still connected down here!"
You can't buy lessons (or kharma) like that.
Last edited by overqualified52; 07-30-2024 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Spelling
07-30-2024 | 10:14 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 24
The ultimate tragedy of hurrying was the KLM Captain at Tenerife . Both the FO and FE knew PAN AM was still on the runway but that guy didn't listen to anyone and was in a big hurry and 600 plus people paid the ultimate price .
07-30-2024 | 10:15 AM
#36
Coverage Award...
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 105
This. The new system has us often at the limit. It's usually when the winds are light and crosswindy. 2kts HW turns into 4kts TW easily. That exceeds their new 5kt buffer.
07-30-2024 | 11:04 AM
#37
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,050
Likes: 443
From: Pilot
MSP also has this issue right now due to the dorked up flow patterns. Last week WDR had reported winds of 1 kt tailwind with a 1 kt tailwind limit. Approaching the runway the tailwind increased and we had to switch to a packs off TO to give us the required performance. We had sufficient time with a couple of airplanes ahead of us but still if one of us wasn't paying attention we easily could have blown past the limit. It's hard to think of winds as a limit with they're only 4-5 kts but you've got to be dialed in if your WDR has no wiggle room.
07-30-2024 | 11:16 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,363
Likes: 904
07-30-2024 | 04:04 PM
#39
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 6
If you don’t want to worry about any of this just do a TOPR and type WS in the thrust field. It will give you the best performance you can get, usually around a 10 knot tailwind. Try it next time, works great if the winds are changing and you just want to know your max performance.
07-30-2024 | 04:15 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 140
From: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
If you don’t want to worry about any of this just do a TOPR and type WS in the thrust field. It will give you the best performance you can get, usually around a 10 knot tailwind. Try it next time, works great if the winds are changing and you just want to know your max performance.
I'm actually surprised at how little difference it usually makes.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
